Colliding with own bombs during a divebombing attack, bug?

[msalama]

Yup, a pilot error. I should know, has happened to me aplenty as well ;)

[AJaromir]

I overedited my post. It can not be written better by me now.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2911914&postcount=50

 

BTW are you serious or just trolling?

Edited September 27, 2016 by AJaromir

[GGTharos]

The ejectors can push the bomb away from the pylon; however, because gravity is not helping, the ejectors are less effective.

 

You're correct, I'm just saying things are a little more complex in RL.

 

The stores will be ejected, but will probably be unable to correctly separate from aircraft airflow and they will collide with the aircraft.

 

I went and did the actual research on this - these conditions are the most likely to cause a stores-aircraft collision, unlike the OP's wishful thinking of 'sliding along the rails' which is most commonly caused by releasing at speeds that are too low or too high (the exact speeds depend on the stores and the aircraft's wing and other stores, as minimum parameters) - again, this has to do with separation from aircraft airflow.

 

That's certainly something that isn't modeled in-game ... your bombs don't have a safe separation C/IAS limitation. I'll ask for that ;)

 

Going back to the OP's issue, he is correct that the weapons should neither fly through the air frame, nor should they detonate in the vast majority of cases. Having said that, again ... it's a completely minor issue, which is completely avoided by using correct release parameters.

 

Stores-to-aircraft collisions are almost never 'gentle' - you'll end up missing a part of your aircraft. There's no reason for ED to focus on some sort of bomb-aircraft collision model just to satisfy someone's desire to have the absolutely correct effect when releasing under incorrect parameters - I'd rather they model the speed dependent issues instead, like store pitch-down.

 

And before that, I'd really rather they overhaul missile guidance and fuzing something fierce, so I never have to watch (At minimum) someone barrel-rolling a missile head-on and getting away with it :)

 

Spacehamster, the 0G = ACCELERATION 9,780 m/s² Not constant fall speed. So the 0.1G = 8.802 ACCLERATION m/s² (you had -0,4G....13,672 m/s²) But the bomb can not accelerate faster because it is free falling and have to do something with the air friction. So it will start accelerate faster( or slower against aircraft when you have less G than bomb have which happened in your case) (or deccelerate in extreme air friction) until the forces of gravity and air friction are same. You can calculate your acceleration by equation (ABS(G)+1)*9,780)

[SkateZilla]

Correct,

 

The Pylons dont simply "release" and let the bombs fall under Gravitational forces,

 

When released, there are lil Ejector Foots that Kick the Store away from the pylon,

 

if releasing in Sub 1.0G, the ejector foot would kick it enough to push it off the pylon, and then it would fly up into the airframe.

 

It would not simply "ride the pylon" in a negative slope dive.

 

You can clearly see a minuscule kick before they pass through the declining slop aircraft fuselage.

Edited September 27, 2016 by SkateZilla

[Fri13]

My question would be, doesn't bombs have a safety timer (minimum altitude as well) until armed?

 

As I could see that would happen so the bombs would only collide the aircraft (and likely seriously damage it) but not explode just second after release?

 

Even if I actually had pulled negative G (which I did not), then the bombs would have pressed against the pylons or bump against them gently and that would send them off in a vector that would make it impossible for them to collide with the plane.

 

You had the negative G forces if the DCS tells that you have it :)

 

And 100-1000kg bombs (depending what you carry) do not "bump gently" but they will rip off your wings or so.

 

There is good video in YouTube about missile/bomb test releases going wrong when done outside of safety speeds and angles. It isn't pretty sight when it happens. Someone likely know the video (tried to relocate it without success).

[AJaromir]

The bombs ussually have more safety circuits. One is air altitude safety lock and the second is time lock. Third is weapon safety lock. But in this situation i think when the bomb hit wings in this speed, it will cut your wings. I think the aircraft did not explode due to fuze explosion but due to collision. But the reaction of game engine was delayed.

[SkateZilla]

in this case, the bombs likely exploded because the aircraft exploded. because it flew into the 5 bombs at 8Gs and 900kmh.

 

Even if the bombs werent armed yet, 5 of them puppies hitting the aircraft doing a 900kmh 8G pull would pretty much cause the same thing.

[GGTharos]

My question would be, doesn't bombs have a safety timer (minimum altitude as well) until armed?

 

As I could see that would happen so the bombs would only collide the aircraft (and likely seriously damage it) but not explode just second after release?

 

There are a lot of safety mechanisms.

 

 

 

There is good video in YouTube about missile/bomb test releases going wrong when done outside of safety speeds and angles. It isn't pretty sight when it happens. Someone likely know the video (tried to relocate it without success).

 

[jmijnen]

E.T. bomb go home!

[Aginor]

Ok, so can we just sum up this thread by saying:

1. YES, the bombs passing through the plane is of course an error.

2. NO, the OP getting himself killed with that drop is NOT an error but correct, and his fault.

3. The bombs should normally not explode. The plane might though.

[Spacehamster]

in this case, the bombs likely exploded because the aircraft exploded. because it flew into the 5 bombs at 8Gs and 900kmh.

 

Even if the bombs werent armed yet, 5 of them puppies hitting the aircraft doing a 900kmh 8G pull would pretty much cause the same thing.

 

 

You have a really loose grip on physics. If I release at 900 the bombs have only a tiny amount of relative speed compared to the plane, means any bomb touching the plane (which again would not have happened for the aerodynamically impossible zero G spike that happened after release) would only very gently touch it, like a feather. And on top of that, the wings are made to withstand several G so they do not get torn off in high G maneuvers.

 

And as I said several times, the moment of release has 0.1 G, then shortly after that a -0.9G spike happens which is due to lazy script coding on the developer's side that does not account for the gravitational situation at this point. If i pull positive G and release 3 tons of bombs, which accounts for roughly 25% of the plane's current mass, then it would reinforce the positive G, and not cause a negative G spike, because my positive G pulling now got a lot easier because of 3 tons of mass having detached from the plane.

[BIGNEWY]

I'm lost now I admit.

 

You accept the drop was incorrect, but you are now discussing how bombs when dropped incorrectly interact with the aircraft?

 

Why not just drop them correctly in the first place?

[Spacehamster]

I don't accept the bombs floating through my plane and then exploding in front of it and then that being acceptable consequence for unfortunate launch parameters. And don't you think bombs attached to my plane completely failing to properly collide with it is a pretty severe bug in a game that prides itself in aerodynamics and physics? 60% of the topics posts so far have been "LOL YOU SUCK AT LAUNCH PARAMETERS" with the bombs spazzing out being perfectly fine at the same time.

 

If they had proper collision, the plane would not have exploded. And if I had not gone through the trouble of uploading a video (0.5Mbit upload speed), then 100% of the replies would have been "LOL YOU SUCK AT LAUNCH PARAMETERS".

Edited September 28, 2016 by Spacehamster

[Goldsmack]

No it would rip off the wings, then explode when whats left hit the ground :doh:

[myHelljumper]

[...]"LOL YOU SUCK AT LAUNCH PARAMETERS".

 

Where ?

[Spacehamster]

No it would rip off the wings, then explode when whats left hit the ground :doh:

 

There is a small chance that this might happen. In most cases, the bombs would cleanly separate from the pylon. Also any contact with the plane or pylon is at very very very slow relative speed.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Spacehamster

[myHelljumper]

Source ?

[msalama]

OK, so you were pulling the plane upwards and the -0.1G spike happened regardless? Hmmm. Well _something's_ not quite kosher then IMHO, incorrect drop or not.

[msalama]

at very very very slow relative speed

 

& this is true as well. Which then makes our bombs a wee bit oversensitive, doesn't it?

[Spacehamster]

OK, so you were pulling the plane upwards and the -0.1G spike happened regardless? Hmmm. Well _something's_ not quite kosher then IMHO, incorrect drop or not.

 

After release, there was a small and sudden pitch downwards, causing the negative G spike. Which physically would not make sense. Because if I am in a slight upwards pitch (+0.1 G) then releasing 3 tons of mass from the plane the positive G should increase with the stick in the same position.

[msalama]

Indeed, unless turbulence ;)

[BIGNEWY]

I always release at 1.0g on steep dives, it is the way I have always done it, anything below is increasing the risk of hitting your own bombs.

 

I neutralise the stick, and walk on to the target.

 

The way you did it was nosing over on to the target

[Spacehamster]

What we should take away from this situation is that bomb collision with the plane is very buggy. Would be great if that could be improved.

 

Now imagine I had not recorded a video, the topic would have gotten buried in "LOL YOU SUCK AT LAUNCH PARAMETERS".

[Aginor]

Ehh...no. We have talked about that before, and not only once.

[JaNk0]

... "LOL YOU SUCK AT LAUNCH PARAMETERS".

 

I will say that the discussion was very informative with people providing evidence to their statements. I'll give Spacehamster the collision bug but I'm convinced by the community that the release was not performed properly.