Rear facing radar?

[WildBillKelsoe]

How to get the radar to face behind you?

 

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[Pikey]

Perhaps you should explain what you have seen, I'm sure you know how the FC3 radars work and what direction they point in.

[feefifofum]

Simple. Turn around! :lol:

[WildBillKelsoe]

I read in su-27 manual that the radar in su-27 has both forward and rear hemispheres. does this mean I can track targets behind me? or is it implemented in HDD only and not radar screen on HUD

 

 

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[Ironhand]

I read in su-27 manual that the radar in su-27 has both forward and rear hemispheres. does this mean I can track targets behind me? or is it implemented in HDD only and not radar screen on HUD

 

 

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Front and rear hemisphere. An approaching target is "front hemisphere". And receding (fleeing) target is "rear hemisphere". It's a reference to the bogey/target direction of travel and the part of him your radar is "seeing", not the direction your radar is facing.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Ironhand

[komemiute]

Doesn't the '27 have actually another radar behind? In the rear cone between the engines?

[Ironhand]

Doesn't the '27 have actually another radar behind? In the rear cone between the engines?

 

That's the housing for the drag chute, I believe...

[Sryan]

That's the housing for the drag chute, I believe...

 

Correct, it holds the chute. On the '34 and '37 it does have a rearward facing radar iirc.

[QuiGon]

Correct, it holds the chute. On the '34 and '37 it does have a rearward facing radar iirc.

 

Yes, only the Su-27K (Su-33), Su-34, Su-35 and Su-37 have rear facing radars in their tail booms. The Su-27S does not.

Edited November 7, 2016 by QuiGon

[komemiute]

Ach! :P

So many variations! Thanks for clarify! *thumb up*

[red_coreSix]

Yes, only the Su-27K, Su-34, Su-35 and Su-37 have rear facing radars in their tail booms. The Su-27S does not.

 

That is actually a wide spread myth. The Su-37 early prototype had one but the Su-27K, Su-34/35 do not have a rear facing radar. In the Su-34 for example the tail boom houses an EW suite.

[QuiGon]

That is actually a wide spread myth. The Su-37 early prototype had one but the Su-27K, Su-34/35 do not have a rear facing radar. In the Su-34 for example the tail boom houses an EW suite.

 

Alright, looks like I was wrong about the Su-27K (Su-33), but the Su-34 and Su-35 are said to be equipped with the N012 rear facing radar by various sources (e.g.: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su35.html).

 

Where did you got the info that this isn't the case?

Edited November 7, 2016 by QuiGon

[red_coreSix]

Alright, looks like I was wrong about the Su-27K (Su-33), but the Su-34 and Su-35 are said to be equipped with the N012 rear facing radar by various sources (e.g.: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su35.html).

 

These sources are all referring to early prototype builds. The rear facing radars were all planned at some point but AFAIK they never really got anywhere and aren't implemented on any operational Russian fighters. I can't remember where I read this but the idea itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense as such a radar would only have a short range and now with the MSA/ESA hybrid IRBIS-E and other passive systems you're already getting very high off-boresight figures/detection ranges.

[Darkbrotherhood7]

Alright, looks like I was wrong about the Su-27K (Su-33), but the Su-34 and Su-35 are said to be equipped with the N012 rear facing radar by various sources (e.g.: http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fighter/su35.html).

 

Where did you got the info that this isn't the case?

 

No, neither the Su-34 or Su-35 have a rear radar, this is a mith.

 

Su-35:

http://www.cavok.com.br/blog/imagens-conheca-a-linha-de-montagem-do-caca-russo-sukhoi-su-35s/

 

 

Su-34:

http://www.cavok.com.br/blog/argelia-estaria-interessada-no-sukhoi-su-34/

 

 

It's in portuguese, but there you can see how the rear cone really is. All the rear cone has is the APU and drag-chute.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Darkbrotherhood7

[DarkFire]

As far as I'm aware a rear-facing radar was tested in a very early Su-34 prototype and they even tried having R-73 missiles that would fire forwards, do a 180 and kill targets approaching from behind. I believe that they found that the range of the rear-facing radar and 180-turning R-73s were so poor that the space would be much better used by EW equipment, which is what the tail boom in the production Su-34 houses, along with the chute & APU exhaust.

[Darkbrotherhood7]

Indeed, it's possible that the Su-32 (very early Su-34 prototype) had a rear radar, but IMHO it is very unlikely.

 

I mean, all I see is articles talking about it, but I have never seen any picture of any rear cone radar.

 

It might be one of those lies that are so repeated, that become true, if you know what mean.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Darkbrotherhood7

[WildBillKelsoe]

Front and rear hemisphere. An approaching target is "front hemisphere". And receding (fleeing) target is "rear hemisphere". It's a reference to the bogey/target direction of travel and the part of him your radar is "seeing", not the direction your radar is facing.

Ah... my bad. Thanks man.

 

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[GGTharos]

Usually what happens is that the original source is parroted over and over and never retracted or explained.

[DarkFire]

Hmm, I might have been wrong in my last post.

 

The closest thing to reliable information I've found was a photo from MAKS 2009 that showed a small dielectric dome on the tip of the tail boom of an Su-34 that came from the aircrew training centre at Lipetsk. It's worth noting though that the bort number on that particular Su-34 was number 1, so it may well have been a very early production example or even an early prototype.

 

Even then, I've not been able to find anything to suggest that what was under the dielectric dome was a rear-facing radar. It might equally (and more likely) be a receiver for the EW system on the aircraft.

 

The Su-37 prototype allegedly featured a rear-facing radar (type unknown but possibly an N005?) but since nobody bought any of them, I guess we'll never know for sure.

 

Of note, the Wikipedia article on the Su-34 mentions the rear-facing radar but has no relevant citation, so to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

 

Sounds like this is indeed one of those ideas that came from a combination of observed features & a big dose of conjecture and then gets repeated so often that it becomes accepted knowledge, when in reality it isn't true.

 

Edited to add: Some great photos of an Su-34 being build here. That thing is HUGE!

 

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/these-riveting-photos-show-how-russias-su-34-fullback-f-1735446088

Edited November 7, 2016 by DarkFire

[QuiGon]

Thanks to all the mythbusters! :D

 

I conclude, that the actual implementation of rear facing radars in the Su-34, Su-35 and Su-37 is unkown, but unlikely.

[ZHeN]

is unkown

not at all

it's known - there are none :)

 

I even doubt the T-50 PAK FA will have one

[QuiGon]

not at all

it's known - there are none :)

 

I even doubt the T-50 PAK FA will have one

 

Well, I haven't seen a reliable source so far. They are all contradicting each other as far as I can see.

Edited November 8, 2016 by QuiGon

[red_coreSix]

I even doubt the T-50 PAK FA will have one

 

It doesn't need one, it has side looking AESA antennas :)

[ZHeN]

 

hint

[red_coreSix]

That is not a radar, it's one of the L402 arrays which is the PAK-FAs ECM suite.