F-22 destroys the Su-27 in super maneuverbility

[VVanks]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4306529957288052978&q=f-22&hl=en

 

American Cobra - The Brakestand

[Guest Cali]

Old video but who CARES, I LOVE IT!!! :thumbsup:

[SuperKungFu]

there's no doubt the F-22 can physically perform a cobra, you probably have to disable the aoa limiter on the computer though. It may destroy the Su-27 in the cobra....but can it beat the Su-37? ;)

[Mustang]

OH NOES!!!1111 here we go again, i can see where this is going to go LOL.....:D

[Frazer]

On the end its all about the pilot. :joystick:

[AlexHunter]

F-22 It should be capable of greater, it in fact has a changeable vector of draft on tangazhu. But for us in Russia it already for a long time projdenyj a stage, on such maneuverability;)

[Weta43]

" F-22 destroys the Su-27 in super maneuverbility"

 

Perhaps, but not on the basis of that video.

 

On that video, the F-22 performs a manouver the Su-27 family have been able to do for a couple of decades, which means that - again, on the basis of that video - you could write :

" F-22 CATCHES UP WITH the Su-27 in super maneuverbility"

 

;-)

[nscode]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4306529957288052978&q=f-22&hl=en

 

American Cobra - The Brakestand

 

Yeeees... now that they can finaly do it, they need to practise it a bit ;)

 

Cobra and the bell (seen on other videos and called "hover") are not so much maneuvarability displays as they are a test for engine performance

[AlexHunter]

Such maneuverability as СУ-30МКИ or МИГ-29 with ОВТ(Changeable vector of draft) is no need F-22, it and so maneuverable enough for conducting БВБ(Near air fight) (though its basic style of fight ДВБ(Distant air fight) ) and a stealth of the plane, it not that iron which was F-117 (I do not understand why have appropriated an index «F» to a small tactical bomber, for privacy?:))

[SVK_Fox]

Greeeeeeat, :D they after many years finally got it and able to do it :D

 

As Frazer said, everything is about pilot. If I will be pilot of F-22, you can shoot me with mig-21 :) np.

[Kenan]

So Vanks, what made in that video F22 "destroy" Su-27 in maneuverability? The Cobra it performed was identicall with the Su-27's.

 

Your topic title is misleading.

[Maximus_G]

It's not identical, the differencies are visible. It's kinda sluggish at the mid- and final stage of the maneuver. Though more controllable then that of Su-27's.

Has anybody seen Raptor performing kulbit or something close to that nameuver?

[AlexHunter]

If to look from this point of view it is possible to tell that F-22 has repeated maneuver a cobra accomplished 20 years ago Russian:). I wished to tell, that maneuverability F-22 sufficient for conducting near fight, and basically it especially and is not necessary to it, if Миг-29 and СУ-27 really will not win air fight against Миг-31, and it not such maneuverable as they;).

 

As addition: from a roller it is visible, that ОВТ to it allows to make not only a cobra well and "kulbit" and « chakru Frolov » (made for the first time on СУ-37)

[Maximus_G]

2 AlexHunter:

 

"near fight" = dogfight in English;

"ОВТ" = thrust vectoring ;)

[AlexHunter]

2 AlexHunter:

 

"near fight" = dogfight in English;

"ОВТ" = thrust vectoring ;)

ok :)

[GGTharos]

Certain US test aircraft had been able to do the Cobra a very, very, /very/ long time ago ;) It seems like the USAF however did not deem it necessary to ensure that their production aircraft had this capability - I wonder why?

 

The Cobra is nothing but a high-AoA handling demonstration ... and I'm quite certain that an F-18 or two have demonstrated some excellent characteristics in that regime.

 

As for 'having to disable the AoA limiter' ... the F-22 is supposed to have a rather wide one ... technically you have to override the limiter on the 27 as well ;)

 

But yeah, the title is quite misleading. The F-22 right now outperforms the 27 in maneuverability due to vectored thrust (ie. controlled high-AoA flight) but any Su or MiG with thrust vectoring will match that easily.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

F-22 destroys the Su-27 in super maneuverbility

"Su-37 outperforms F-22 in super maneuverability." This is the quote from military channel about F-22.

 

As for comparing new aircraft with the 25 years old one, well no comment! :no_sad:

[3Sqn_Fudd]

169th_Prophet and I were both in fully armed Su-25t's one day. On one ingress to Tuapse we downed three Su-27's ... I'm not saying we're awesome or anything, but it comes down to red pilot skill vs. blue pilot skill

[AKULA_OPTIMUS]

Have you seen the SU-30 MKI doing aerobatics?? Superior to raptor in all ways:megalol:

 

The raptor superior to the basic flanker, OF COURSE ;)

[Force_Feedback]

I love this sh*t, this is forum gold what will be told here.

 

Man, I'd love being an FCS programmer one day, getting so much money for making so many errors, and writing a sluggish code. On the su-27, they installed a new FCS, eliminating the need for canards, now that's what I call labour. And they probably did it for 1/50th the Raptor dev team asked for their lazyness.

 

I hope we'll never see either in real combat, and especially not against eachother, U-235 and plutonium are bad for your health and such, so please no 'Yeah, F-22 will rule Ruskie skies', although I would like to see that happen, I won't live to hear about it. And, wake up, cold war is over, no need for TVC or other gizmos, unless you're heaving some 'policing' to do, or have some customers.

 

I'm leaving this thread in a gracious manner, namely with lots of flame and smoke...

 

 

Yes, and ejection seat :megalol:

[GGTharos]

Have you seen the SU-30 MKI doing aerobatics?? Superior to raptor in all ways:megalol:

 

The raptor superior to the basic flanker, OF COURSE ;)

 

Sorry but no - with a higher TWR and thrust vectoring, the Raptor will outperform the Su-30MKI wether people actually want to believe that or not.

 

(Wah, but it had 3D nozzleS! WAH! .... right, and? A little clever FBW programming and you can have quite similar performance)

[SVK_Fox]

Certain US test aircraft had been able to do the Cobra a very, very, /very/ long time ago ;) It seems like the USAF however did not deem it necessary to ensure that their production aircraft had this capability - I wonder why?

 

The Cobra is nothing but a high-AoA handling demonstration ... and I'm quite certain that an F-18 or two have demonstrated some excellent characteristics in that regime.

 

As for 'having to disable the AoA limiter' ... the F-22 is supposed to have a rather wide one ... technically you have to override the limiter on the 27 as well ;)

 

But yeah, the title is quite misleading. The F-22 right now outperforms the 27 in maneuverability due to vectored thrust (ie. controlled high-AoA flight) but any Su or MiG with thrust vectoring will match that easily.

 

As you said US TEST! aircraft were able to do cobra, but I dont remmember any of those aircraft without special construction on engines or behind engines. Su fammilly are able to do it without any special arrangements. The frame of the plane is really unique.

F-18 is really excelent plane but AoA is not regime of the "one" moment. It is different when you are able to make 35 AoA degrees turn in few secs, and when you able to stay in this AoA long time without loose of speed or controll. And this is important for pilots.

[Pilotasso]

"Su-37 outperforms F-22 in super maneuverability." This is the quote from military channel about F-22.

 

As for comparing new aircraft with the 25 years old one, well no comment! :no_sad:

 

 

I have that documentary and its an old one, at the time it was expected that the Su-35/37 would evolve into an operational fighter wich later turned out to be economicaly unviable and thus not feasible for service.

 

In practice the Su-35/37 never existed as a fighter. Much like the forward swept X-29 testbed or the F-20 tigershark.

 

Comparing these to real combat aircraft makes much sense as comparing racing high tech composite material P-51's to a real messershmit 109, because one had working weapons and the other doest.

[GGTharos]

As you said US TEST! aircraft were able to do cobra, but I dont remmember any of those aircraft without special construction on engines or behind engines. Su fammilly are able to do it without any special arrangements. The frame of the plane is really unique.

 

Yes, right, unfortunately it wasn't very goot for the Russian engines either, something we're just now finding out eh? Maybe there wa sa -really- good reason why you didn't see certain aircraft do Cobras beind 'we can't do it' ...

 

F-18 is really excelent plane but AoA is not regime of the "one" moment. It is different when you are able to make 35 AoA degrees turn in few secs, and when you able to stay in this AoA long time without loose of speed or controll. And this is important for pilots.

 

 

F-18 can hold 80 AoA all day. What are you talking about?

[AlexHunter]

The Cobra is nothing but a high-AoA handling demonstration ... and I'm quite certain that an F-18 or two have demonstrated some excellent characteristics in that regime.

 

Strongly I doubt that F-18 will make a cobra