I can not stall or spin Mirage that is not right!

[jaguara5]

Where did you found these references ? Do you have the documents ?

 

I ' ve found the references here

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88411main_H-1957V2.pdf

[jojo]

I ' ve found the references here

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88411main_H-1957V2.pdf

 

Ok, I end up there too in my search.

 

Another interesting reading about design philosophy behind the Mirage 2000.

How to make the max out of a 9000kg thrust engine ?

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19800013819.pdf

[jaguara5]

Here are also some references

https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19840017535.pdf

[LJQCN101]

Yeap, I guess I did not expect Mirage to be that stable, as I understand Su-27 and F-15 also have PFM with FBW in FC3 is that correct? but Su-27/ f-15 behavior is more realistic to me, with all the jittery and shaky at low speed and low-level flights, stall/ spin is more possible in those models, but maybe it is just me, but thanks you for your feedback, I will do some homework reading. Overall avionics look really authentic, and if FM is close to the real thing than I am very happy with that.

 

Well, you may want to think twice on DCS F-15C and DCS Su-27. I don't know if the F-15C IRL can pull 12G at supersonic speeds as in DCS F-15C with all 3-channel CAS on, but I know Su-27 pretty well and I'm in touch with a bunch of guys who fly SU-27SK, J-11A and J-11B, and also have access to their manuals in the air force. I've inspected DCS Su-27 for a long time and there's several flight characteristics that is either not implemented or implemented wrong. If you're interested, you can join the discussion here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=176448&page=8.

 

stall/ spin is more possible in those models

Spin is not possible in DCS Su-27.

Edited January 9, 2017 by LJQCN101

[Azrayen]

Yeap, I guess I did not expect Mirage to be that stable, as I understand Su-27 and F-15 also have PFM with FBW in FC3 is that correct? but Su-27/ f-15 behavior is more realistic to me, with all the jittery and shaky at low speed and low-level flights, stall/ spin is more possible in those models, but maybe it is just me

It is just you. :)

Guys who have actual time on the 2000 feel the DCS model (a few monthes back, it's better now) was a bit too much jittery and shaky. ;)

[TomCatMucDe]

Yeap, I guess I did not expect Mirage to be that stable, as I understand Su-27 and F-15 also have PFM with FBW in FC3 is that correct? but Su-27/ f-15 behavior is more realistic to me, with all the jittery and shaky at low speed and low-level flights, stall/ spin is more possible in those models, but maybe it is just me, but thanks you for your feedback, I will do some homework reading. Overall avionics look really authentic, and if FM is close to the real thing than I am very happy with that.

 

Actually the only FBW plane in DCS ist the Mirage. The F15 and Flanker are not FBW.

[ZHeN]

Flanker are not FBW.

orly ?

[zaelu]

Cut the engine at 60kmph and electric power. Don't forget to pull your legs as you eject! :D

[rrohde]

Actually the only FBW plane in DCS ist the Mirage. The F15 and Flanker are not FBW.

 

From what I understand, the Flanker's got FBW in its pitch axis; correct me if I'm wrong.

[TomCatMucDe]

From what I understand, the Flanker's got FBW in its pitch axis; correct me if I'm wrong.

 

exactly, only the pitch. This doesnt allow the computer to fully take the control of the plane like the Mirage. Therefore, you cant compare both birds. The mirage in this regard is comparable to the F16.

[Chrinik]

It´s not really a fly-by-wire in the traditional sense...the controls might be articulated using digital readouts to hydrolic pumps instead of direct control from the stick, but the system behind it is not 100% care free handling and auto trimming in the Flanker.

 

Within limits, the ACG will not allow you to exceed critical flight envelopes...it´s just that nobody flies within those limits. Ever.

The pilot can also overpower them, a feature the soviet pilots specifically requested, because they didn´t actually like the notion of a machine making the decisions for them. So by pressing the wheelbrake, you can pull extra AOA, and by essentially pulling the stick really hard (not simulated) you can also overpower the limiter and tell the plane to pull harder than "recommended".

 

You can also roll and pull at the same time in transsonic speeds at rates which will break your wings off easily...the system does not account for that.

 

You also have to still trim the Flanker for varying flightspeeds, unlike the F-15, which coupled it´s systems with an auto-trim functionality. This is the reason why people assume the F-15s have hands-off fly by wire...it´s trimming for the current attitude and speed automatically.

 

This is the reason why F-15 and Flanker can "depart"...their systems are not actually interfeering too much with the control surfaces.

In the Mirage, you can create situations in which your lift is not sufficient and fall...but the system is so busy making millions of tiny adjustments that it feels alot more controlable and stable, and for all accounts and purposes, is "controlled flight"...

However, one immediately notices that the Mirage becomes more and more sluggish the slower you fly, and how the ground get´s closer and closer at around 120kts and below, even if you can still pull a turn, you aren´t actually "flying" anymore and will have to eventually gain airspeed.

 

Catch my drift?

Edited January 9, 2017 by Chrinik

[Sweep]

Catch my drift?

 

Your drift downwards at 110KCAS? Yes. :P :thumbup:

[Pocket Sized]

Control augmentation (F-15, Su-27, F-5, etc) ALTERS your inputs slightly to allow for more predictable flying qualities.

 

Fly by wire REPLACES your inputs with control surface movements that generate the desired response. For example, at full back stick the mirage will deflect the elevons down a bit to keep the AoA below 30.

 

Press right ctrl + enter if you want to see what the FBW is doing to your inputs. It's pretty amazing to watch.

[jojo]

Just for the fun, watch video at 16'58"

http://www.aerostar.tv/videos/stearmania/

[myHelljumper]

Just for the fun, watch video at 16'58"

http://www.aerostar.tv/videos/stearmania/

 

Dat AoA :shocking:

[jojo]

Another improbable formation flight: