Red Flag - Aggressor PvP January

[Coxy_99]

I shall be on tomorrow on 104th TS from about 4pm Zulu onward, I finished work late and im very tired :(

[Flame]

Hi All

 

I will be preparing tactical briefing 1 hour before the mission start for challengers.

Please try to be there so we can arrange something organized for challengers.

 

@Maverick, can you add 8 sub channels at team speak for challengers?

[104th_Maverick]

@Maverick, can you add 8 sub channels at team speak for challengers?

 

Yes mate I will add at least 8.

 

Guys, sadly we are still having issues getting Simple Radio to work on our server. As a result the comms will be hosted on Teamspeak for this round.

 

We plan to do another Red Flag next month, we will make sure we have the SR issues worked by then!

[Ragnarok]

I'm canceling. Busy

 

Thanks for the organization!

[Coug4r]

What are the issues with Simple Radio?

[=DECOY=]

Guys im going to have to drop out. im really gutted as i love your events.

 

I wish you all the best and i look forward to watching it live while attending a rubbish family event lol

[104th_Maverick]

We're planning to do a Red Flag each month this year, so hopefully you'll have loads of chances to take part mate! ;)

[Weedwacker]

Am I too late to make the reserve list?

 

Weedwacker

Lonewolf

Su-27

USA

[104th_Maverick]

Added! However we can't guarantee that you will get a spot sir but please turn up if you can, clients on the reserve list will start filling the first spots for people who do not show up!

[knix15]

Thanks for the game, see you next time!

[Jester Darrak]

Event was fun, but total chaos as I witnessed it. There are some things I'd like to have changed or added:

 

- Clear goals (and schedules) for both sides.

 

Red needs to kill all groundpounders while Blue needs to take out certain numbers if not all of the ground targets. Red gets 2 minutes head start.[example]

 

- Commanders

 

Once you are tumbleweed (on the deck with zero SA) you are 99.9% dead. A commander can assign a guard or send reinforcements in real-time.

 

- Referees

 

They overlook participants of both sides to following the rules, keeping the scores. Also supporting the broadcaster by calling upcoming engagements.

 

- Challenger Dedicated Flight Leads

 

Still working on this one.

[microvax]

Okay I mostly cleared my concerns with Maverick in twitch chat already.

 

The ahead start of the Aggressors was nothing I expected due to my research into previous DCS Red Flags and the briefing info. Thats why I expected a start on unpause like in other DCS events. So that on ground performance actually is a impacting factor.

 

Maverick stated that it was intended that the aggressors get a ahead start and will be like that in all following events.

 

So my feedback would be to make the starting conditions clearer, so that mission planning is not wasted because of unclarities like this.

 

For the part of me dying during my strike:

 

In accordance to my expectation of a start on unpause and aggressor aircrafts over the target area times relative to mission start from recent Red Flags I did actually start doing such a strike plan.

 

Then I did training to optimize for scramble times. In the end I got startup procedures flightplan and attack plan trimmed down in a way. that The Aggressors would have to takeoff within 3 minutes from unpause to intercept me before deploying all a2g ordanance and within less then 1 minute to prevent the destruction of their shilkas, assuming from takeoff going 400kts ias to 20 000ft and going full burner as soon as I am detected.

 

I also did backup planning for failed or no INS alignment, and especially I did make a table which tells me how much of my attack plan I am going to be able to execute depending on what location on my ingress I get the first nails.

Shortcomming of my plan here was expecting equal takeoff times. Because I pretty much expected that start on unpause may not happen and instead a start from taxi would happen.

 

So since I got RWR indications at the earliest possible time I scratched my last shilka run and the gun runs on BRDMs and BTRs. Again expecting equal takeoff time. I got STT once I pulled up from my first drop, aligning for the first run, I did expect that, scare le target and stuff.

Then pulling up from the second run I knew that i should have time to do one more run on the northern group from east to west, extend heading 100 full burner. To make sure my plan holds up, I flicked on a2a radar during extend for lineup on last run. Thats when I got pitbull warning, while expecting still to have something like 30 seconds.

 

I obviously went jettison all the a2g memez limiter off and turn cold but well rip didnt work.

 

Edit: before anyone jumps to conclusions with my continious use of full AB. I did have enough fuel for full AB back to base giving me mach 1.3 at the deck escape velocity. I would even had that, if I have had the time to do a full strike, including 10-15% safety margin. The mirage has a ton of fuel compared to its afterburner consumption.

 

For the moment I just thought I messed up, I overextended my time window or something. What indeed was the factor I didnt expect it to be was the early start of the Aggressors.

 

Once I discovered, that the Aggressors got an early start I kinda did go bonkerz tbh. Spending 8-10 hours on Flight and strike planning and training. Testing options backwards and forwards. Testing for radar cover and escape vectors running different f15 setups on a plan, which would have worked if at least the synchronus takeoff criteria would have matched.

 

At the time I still was pretty sure that wasnt intended, since Maverick after the server crash explicitly stated, when asking us not to join all at once, that getting to bullseye first would not grant us anything. Also someone who said he forwarded my concenrs to maverick that a start from pause was originally intended and got lost in the server restart.

 

So yeah I went a little bonkerz there, obviously beeing annoyed that my precious plan did fail due to an perceived error due to the server restart.

 

Given maverick said an early arrival at bullseye would not give us anything, I am pretty sure still that my attack was unexpected and I am happy at least that came true, and seeing that my timeplan would have worked out if the synchronus takeoff criterium was met also makes me happy that at least it wasnt the fault of my planning.

 

Tl;dr

So yeah, thats the story why that el retard mirage dyed early on. :D Unexpected starting conditions. And since I enjoyed the planning, training, and that it technically would have worked if the starting conditions were known, I pledge for a more precise briefing of what the starting conditions are.

 

 

P.S.: Someone said during the stream the mirage is not intended for that kind of role. There is a correctish part and a very false part about this. It is true, that the Mirage 2000c is not an explicitly built for the role high speed interdictor. There is the 2000n though, which largely has the same fuselage and from which we also have the huge wing tanks. Its the high speed low alt nuclear strike variant. So while the 2000c has pretty limited a2g options in terms of accuracy and load, it is suited pretty perfectly for the high speed interdiction role if those limitations can be overcome.

 

There was also a plan to take out Aggressor Aifield SAM systems that worked, I scratched that though, since SAM systems at the Aggressor Airfield didnt yield points.

 

I will upload footage from my training and overlay that with the timeplan that happend somehow to illustrate the possibilities of high speed interdictions.

I did hold that back until now to maximise le surprise effect. :D

 

 

I thank 104th for hosting the event, I indeed had fun in the end and hope my input can improve future versions of red flag. :)

 

S!

 

 

EDIT: Here my really early go at the Aggressors airfield defense batteries. Again, would have done that with wing tanks and a 500nm terrain masked ingress route and had enough fuel for full burner home to nellis. But due to no points for base defense batteries and it beeing kinda risky I did drop that plan further along the line.

Edited January 29, 2017 by microvax

[IronMike]

Event was fun, but total chaos as I witnessed it. There are some things I'd like to have changed or added:

 

- Clear goals (and schedules) for both sides.

 

Red needs to kill all groundpounders while Blue needs to take out certain numbers if not all of the ground targets. Red gets 2 minutes head start.[example]

 

- Commanders

 

Once you are tumbleweed (on the deck with zero SA) you are 99.9% dead. A commander can assign a guard or send reinforcements in real-time.

 

- Referees

 

They overlook participants of both sides to following the rules, keeping the scores. Also supporting the broadcaster by calling upcoming engagements.

 

- Challenger Dedicated Flight Leads

 

Still working on this one.

 

 

Hey buddy, thanks for your feedback.

 

I would still like us to stay factual though, because as regrettable it is, that you didn't enjoy the experience you wanted, saying it was total chaos is an exeggaration. I think the majority of the participants enjoyed it and overall it went really well.

 

Unforuntaly some things also become clear to us only during or after hosting, as the real stress test for such an event is always the event itself. That being said, in hindsight of future red flags, we will be able to avoid the hickups at the start and other issues noted during the event.

 

As to your points.

 

- The objectives for the blue side where clear through the briefing and flame briefed you addiationally. However we want to improve this point, too. That's why in the future dedicated forum sections on our homepage will serve for closed briefing preparations. You will have at least 2 weeks to prepare.

 

- Airbosses for both sides will be included in the future, but on the blue team, someone has to volunteer. We cannot force anyone to do it. In my point of view, =RVE=Flame stepped in and did a great job with the little preparation he had. Thank you, Flame!

 

- Referees is us, the organizers. We set the rules, you can be sure they wont be broken from our side. This will neither change nor is this subject to discussion. The same goes for counting points, etc. Even suggesting the thought we would tinker with that in our favour, is off, mate. I hope you also noticed that prizes are only given to the blue side. During the whole event members of the 104th who were not flying were standing by as admins.

 

- As for the twitch stream, it is a good idea to have "look outs" and we will for sure discuss it with hook, who by the way did an awesome job.

 

Thank you Hook, we couldnt be more grateful!!

 

- The dedicated flight leads is something I am sure exists on blue side for the squadrons. If you are a lonewolf, it is up to you to organize your flight, not to us. If you need help with that and miss it, please approach us up front and we will help with that of course.

 

I hope you could enjoy it nonetheless and that your questions have been answered. Please remember, it is after a long time such a big event has been hosted in NTTR. We, too, need time to evolve it properly.

 

To everyone else, thank you for flying, it was great fun and a great challenge put up by the blue side, I enjoyed it a lot, and the twitch stream on top was just amazing! A big thanks goes also to the 51st PVO for putting up such a great fight as Aggressors! And a massive thanks goes to Leatherneck for their generosity!

 

Special thanks goes to Maverick and everyone who helped us organize and admin the event!

 

S!

Edited January 28, 2017 by IronMike

[Jester Darrak]

A total chaos might have been a little over the top since I only saw a small portion, sure. Just as a recap - the rounds before we all started our engines on command and took off around the same time so I thought it'd be the same this time. During taxiing a Mirage rear-ended another Mirage and the following explosion took out my 2 wingmen. That delayed us furthermore with the INS of the Mirages also being not aligned (I know, 2.0 issue). Before I was even in the air we lost 4 or 5 planes along with Flame. I'm not mad at anyone, just a little frustrated that things didn't work out for me and also disappointed about myself for showing up late and thus missing most of the briefing. It just all came together but the Hogs did a great job on the short window they had. The CAP side of things might not have been that well executed but Strike Package was so perfectly orchestrated they killed around 90% of the targets with the first pass.

 

But hey, if the majority had their share of fun I'm totally fine with it. It's not that I have to wait another 6 months or even more to show I can do better. ;)

 

And again, thank you for doing this, I love Red Flag.

[HardTime]

Aggressor PVP

 

I really enjoyed spectating the Aggressor PVP today and look forward to next months!

[Wizard_VVS]

A total chaos might have been a little over the top since I only saw a small portion, sure. Just as a recap - the rounds before we all started our engines on command and took off around the same time so I thought it'd be the same this time. During taxiing a Mirage rear-ended another Mirage and the following explosion took out my 2 wingmen. That delayed us furthermore with the INS of the Mirages also being not aligned (I know, 2.0 issue). Before I was even in the air we lost 4 or 5 planes along with Flame. I'm not mad at anyone, just a little frustrated that things didn't work out for me and also disappointed about myself for showing up late and thus missing most of the briefing. It just all came together but the Hogs did a great job on the short window they had. The CAP side of things might not have been that well executed but Strike Package was so perfectly orchestrated they killed around 90% of the targets with the first pass.

 

But hey, if the majority had their share of fun I'm totally fine with it. It's not that I have to wait another 6 months or even more to show I can do better. ;)

 

And again, thank you for doing this, I love Red Flag.

 

"In preparing for battle I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is indispensable."

Dwight D. Eisenhower

 

:D

[Coxy_99]

I found it refreshing then using 1.5, The heat blurs and the terrain made it look hot, Was different even if i lasted 2 mins haha, Would like to see maybe a little cloud cover next time?

[Veritech]

Thanks to the 104th for the effort of putting all this together.

Thanks to Flame, who made a huge effort in building a plan that couldn't come to fruition due to technical issues.

And finally thanks to Coxy, TurboRush, Horax and Panda who were in my fighter group. Good job by Panda and Horax who managed to stay up more than half of the time!

 

One thing I'd like to see if possible is restricted payloads in the way of taking out of the way the 120s, the ETs and the ERs. Mav mentioned that it would be too hard for the Aggressors... but we could revise the numbers as well. This would increase the number of merges and dogfights, as sadly, I've seen few to none yestreday.

 

Other than that, I'm really looking forward for another episode of Red Flag and to start training regularly with the ppl that I've flown to compensate the lack of a squadron.

 

Regards!

 

V

[plaiskool]

My pleasure to fly Red Flag is to fight "FOX3 Flow" vs great players doing short skate and good quick combat phases, for me it's less boring than "Banzaî" Fox1 flow where you shoot, Fpole, close, and get wrecked by 54 others bandit cause you are low, slow, ending up in dogfight...

 

People should adapt to the rules instead of trying to change them every time.

 

 

And yes going 1v1 head-on vs Fox3 you will get wrecked if you fly mirage, but we should better work on tactics(dephase the fight to have beam entry) instead of trying to change the rules.

 

 

Veritech your chances to die vs fox1 are exactly the same than fox3,

Weapon i think is a false excuse, with our lack of organisation, we will get wrecked exactly the same, even faster...

 

In my vision, merge is good when online PVP lonewolf again average people, with a high risk level, unlimited lives, here, in redflag with 1 life, vs 104th 51th getting always support in depth there is no reason to go to merge as you will get splashed by the support wingy as soon as you are merged with the lead element...(this only if you arrive alive til the merge)... it's period

 

THe goal of BVR is to not go to the merge.

Merge shouldn't be seen like a goal in BVR flow but more like a proof of bad organisation or poor SA.

Edited January 29, 2017 by plaiskool

[Veritech]

I'm not changing the rules as I please, I'm providing feedback and giving my opinion. As such, I respect yours and respectfully disagree with your statement that the effectiveness of a semi-active missile is the same as the active ones: if you ever been to Blue Flag you should be aware of that.

On the other hand, many of the Challengers showed up late for the briefing, yourself included, which did not help to improve the organization. But we can discuss that in a more private environment if you wish.

 

Regards,

 

V

[plaiskool]

i will be happy to talk on Ts :)

<3<3 love

[Veritech]

:lol:

 

Peace! :D

[*Rage*]

Veritech your chances to die vs fox1 are exactly the same than fox3,Weapon i think is a false excuse, with our lack of organisation, we will get wrecked exactly the same, even faster...

 

I'm afraid I can't agree:) Next time I invite you to take only Fox1 against Fox3 opposition in Redflag.

 

Thanks to all especially Maverick and Hook. I'm just waiting to despatch the family so I can watch the stream.

[microvax]

I have to emphasize that any concerns could be addressed already and the event organisers couldnt really be more reasonable listeing to constructive feedback.

 

Really looking forward to the next event and the whole series developing over time ! :)

 

S!

[104th_Maverick]

Wow what an event!

 

Thanks to everyone who took part, the official scores will be released later on today along with the tracks, TacVIEW and Strategic TacVIEW video.

 

 

 

I just want to clear up what happened regarding the event start. Basically I F--k'ed up big time, I foolishly did not run a test on our NTTR server before the event.

This turned out to be extremely stupid and naive of me as when we went to launch the server, it would not show up in the list. This then immediately led to a border line panic attack as I already had 50+ people waiting on Teamspeak for the event to start plus everyone waiting on Twitch and we had no idea what was wrong.

 

Anyway to help ease the burden on me while I tried to fix the server issue 104th_IronMike very kindly offered to do the event briefing. Instead of telling him no and that I would do it once we'd fixed the server (because I had new rules to cover with you guys), I took the easy option and just said "yes please mate".

I want to stress that what happened was not 104th_IronMike's fault but mine, he asked me about the rules and I pointed him to the post on the forum and he covered everything in there, rather than do what I should have done which would have been to run him through the new rules we would be introducing this year.

 

I did not tell IronMike about the new start procedure of the aggressors taking off first, and stupidly forgot all about it after we got the server issue fixed and I checked in with him and he confirmed that the event briefing had been done.

With all the stress I was under I just totally forgot to check with him what he had said regarding the start procedure, again I take full responsibility for that and I'm deeply sorry for the confusion and ultimately, frustration this caused you guys!

Trust me when I say lessons have been learned and nothing like this will ever happen again!

 

I want to thank 104th_RIPTIDE for coming to my rescue and saving me from a heart attack after I contacted him on the Bat Phone and screamed 'SAVE ME' down the line, he came to the rescue quickly, identified the problem (firewall issue) and fixed it!

 

So we are now working feverishly to bring you the tracks and scores etc. We are cross checking the TacVIEW and Track with the DCS log to confirm who killed what and the scores and winners will be announced later on today!

 

Stay tuned!