VR and manipulating cockpit controls.

[blade782]

Hi guys, got my Rift and Thrustmaster Warthog. However, i'm having trouble figuring out a way to manipulate the various switches and buttons via VR head look function. Has anyone figured out an efficient way to map it to HOTAS somehow? I can map the left mouse click button, however that still leaves the switches which need scrolling. I really don't want to have to use my mouse to click things while in VR, thanks!

[dburne]

Perhaps I am missing something, but I just use the mouse as normal like I did in 2d.

I flip the switches with the left mouse button and use my scroll wheel on the mouse for turning dials.

I move my mouse over the button and do the above.

 

Not sure I am familiar with the "via VR headlook function" so that may be what I am missing.

 

Edit : Disregard, I realize now your last sentence states you don't want to use the mouse. Guess I should read more carefully lol.

Edited February 25, 2017 by dburne

[blade782]

Yeah in VR you can look at switches to manipulate them

[BobFlex]

Unless you have a HOTAS with a scroll wheel built into it I'm not sure if that's possible right now. If it is it should have been in the same section as the mouse click in the keybindings.

[blade782]

I have a TM Warthog like yourself. Hmm i guess i will play around with it more too see what i can come up with.

[Wolf8312]

I have a TM Warthog like yourself. Hmm i guess i will play around with it more too see what i can come up with.

 

It's sooo much better and convenient to use the HOTAS buttons on the throttle as mouse input than it is to use the mouse itself but yes mapping controls to the UI layer means you have to sacrifice buttons that you would normally use to do important jobs with the HOTAS and for some reason mapping the mouse wheel to the HOTAS makes things very slow if you need to do things quickly so I ended up mapping things that needed quick mouse wheel action to individual buttons on the keyboard. It was worth all the messing about to be able to use the HOTAS instead of the mouse though and after s while you'll realize it counts as another advantage of VR.

 

Mig and black shark I am very happy with my new control set up, using the mouse sucks compared to using your head and using the HOTAS -which is actually more efficient than using your hands would be- is great for when you need to press important buttons quickly.

 

I got it working great with the black shark and the MiG though it might be more difficult to change settings with the HOG as it feels a shame to mess with the authenticity of the default warthog setup.

[blade782]

Yes you are right, i wouldn't want to compromise the warthog default mapping =). While i have you here, do you have issues with clouds in VR? clouds rotate along their axis depending upon which way i look at them. Is this something you are experiencing too? is there a way to fix this?

[Los]

I guess using the mouse is difficult for some? I find mapping the mouse to your head movement is more cumbersome and finicky and adds nothing to immersion over a mouse. But then again I fly center stick and have the mouse in a mount by my right thigh it works great and feels more natural. Like others my warthog has more valuable functions to map. To each their own!

[Bearfoot]

Yep -- touchpad on kneeboard strapped to left thigh seems to me the best solution. Really straightforward, easy and intuitive and seamless, 100% immersion retained, no precious HOTAS switches used up. Note: I use a touchpad mini-keyboard rather than a mouse. I've stuck little studs on the important keys (e.g., left/right mouse button, enter, space) so I can find them blindfolded in the dark at 200 km/h!

[Wolf8312]

Yep -- touchpad on kneeboard strapped to left thigh seems to me the best solution. Really straightforward, easy and intuitive and seamless, 100% immersion retained, no precious HOTAS switches used up. Note: I use a touchpad mini-keyboard rather than a mouse. I've stuck little studs on the important keys (e.g., left/right mouse button, enter, space) so I can find them blindfolded in the dark at 200 km/h!

 

Good idea but you still need to take you hands of the HOTAS which will decrease efficiency compared to using the HOTAS. Think you're best off choosing buttons that you never really need to grasp for in an emergency (right mouse button is vital for quickly grasping for all sorts of buttons and levers, eject, landing gear etc!) and map them to the keypad though I might use your setup for the warthog. Try mapping mouse buttons to HOTAS and play with it for a while and I think like me you'll realize advantageous it can be sometimes.

 

And in response to the other guys question yeah clouds are pretty funky in 1.5.5 fixed for 1.56 though I think but with more performance problems for the system.

[Bearfoot]

Good idea but you still need to take you hands of the HOTAS which will decrease efficiency compared to using the HOTAS. Think you're best off choosing buttons that you never really need to grasp for in an emergency (right mouse button is vital for quickly grasping for all sorts of buttons and levers, eject, landing gear etc!) and map them to the keypad though I might use your setup for the warthog. Try mapping mouse buttons to HOTAS and play with it for a while and I think like me you'll realize advantageous it can be sometimes.

.

 

You are absolutely right about the inefficiency of taking hands of HOTAS to manipulate keys/switches/dials! But the way I look at it, that's what the RL pilots have to do IRL, and that is also coupled with the fact that I find the movement more natural even if more inefficient.

 

I should also mention that I use Voice Attack extensively --- from F1..F10, to using Highwayman-ED's profile for manipulating radios, ADF, NADIR, etc. I also have mouse scroll on Voice Attack (e.g., "Mouse Scroll Forward 10/50/100"), which helps because I find the scroll on the touch pad dodgy.

 

Giving up those precious HOTAS buttons though for out-of-reality/meta-keys is always painful! Already given up some for: Voice Attack PTT; SimpleRadio 1,2,3, and PTT; PTT Teamspeak, zoom, recenter, etc.

[Los]

Ok not for nothing but, unless your HOTAS has only a few buttons, you should be able to map, for most aircraft, everything you need to have near you at a second's notice on your devices.

 

Apart from that, not every second of a flight, unless its been terribly planned out, is spent running along the deck in the mountains at ten feet at 500 mph, or in a life of death dogfight. Real cockpits don't have every switch mapped to hotas, and apparently actual pilots have learned to overcome these insurmountable deficits.

 

I've been flying vr continuously for eight months now and given this a lot of thought. I have for most aircraft my hotas mapped a certain way, and everything works fine. The mouse a positioned in a way that requires no undue effort to operate, and, just because, on top of that I'm working on a nice VR cockpit for other functions I want access in a way I can easily find them.

 

I'm not trying to dissuade anyone here. Its great that they have included the functionality of being able to manipulate cockpit switches through hotas and vr headset like they have done. Certainly I cant afford to take two or three precious hotas buttons to map them to a mouse function when I already have a perfectly usable device called a mouse, married with 32 years of established muscle memory behind it. I've found the answer to be properly repositioning the mouse and physical cockpit space layout in general.

 

I feel that if one is going to fly regularly in vr, more than even regular eyeball flying, you have to have a well thought out ergonomic cockpit layout. You have to be able to easily reach whatever you need, without seeing it and with minimal amount of body repositioning, since you or dong everything by feel. (Whether its mouse of some other selection method)

 

p.s.

Oh and that's great advice re Voice attack. Especially for radio commands.

 

Los

Edited February 26, 2017 by Los

[some1]

It's much more convenient to have the mouse near you left hand, so you can still hold the stick and fly the plane while using it. A trackball is even better, I just have one positioned next to the throttle and after a little practice I don't miss a mouse when flying.

Edited February 26, 2017 by some1

[metzger]

It's much more convenient to have the mouse near you left hand, so you can still hold the stick and fly the plane while using it. A trackball is even better, I just have one positioned next to the throttle and after a little practice I don't miss a mouse when flying.

What kind of lefthand trackball you have? Was it hard to get used to operate it with the left hand(assuming it is not your preferred)

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[Bearfoot]

Kensington makes a trackball that is ambidextrous due to its centered ball:

 

https://www.kensington.com/us/us/4493/k72352us/orbit-wireless-mobile-trackball

 

Unfortunately, I tried it (and in fact still have it), but found the precision/responsivity is too kludgy: lots of sticktion and then poor tracking. I think it's because it might be using 90's era mechanical tracking instead of optical? Either way, the touchpad works soooooooooooooooooooo much better that I just didn't bother looking back. (Note that Kensington makes a higher end trackball that may work better)

[Wolf8312]

Ok not for nothing but, unless your HOTAS has only a few buttons, you should be able to map, for most aircraft, everything you need to have near you at a second's notice on your devices.

 

Apart from that, not every second of a flight, unless its been terribly planned out, is spent running along the deck in the mountains at ten feet at 500 mph, or in a life of death dogfight. Real cockpits don't have every switch mapped to hotas, and apparently actual pilots have learned to overcome these insurmountable deficits.

 

Yes but real pilots also dont have to find and use a mouse to push their buttons while weaing a VR headset, this might not seem like a big deal but in practice -at least for me- it will get you killed!

 

I personally think using the VR head tracking is actually more realistic than scrambling around for my mouse and then moving the cursor over to whatever button I need.

 

It's time consuming and will often get you killed in a panicked emergency whereas 'look and push' will often save your life. For added realism you can push with the left hand on throttle and then lean in to whatever button you are looking at to imaginarily push it with your right hand if you really want added realism! :)

 

Pressing a button with your hands while flying is enormously more efficent than using a mouse especially in tight situations and I do think using VR head tracking to look at what button you indend to push and then pushing it, more realistically mirrors the real life situation of using your hands.

I really have died quite alot because I lost valuable time using the mouse and in emergencies a few seconds can be the diffrence between life or death. Not only that but it gets on my nerves after a while and looking for the mouse kind of breaks immersion as nobody flys a plane with a mouse!

 

It's personal preference I guess with no real right answer but after getting used to head tracking and the mouse mapped to my HOTAS I find it very difficult to go back and personally really love it.

[Bearfoot]

Yes but real pilots also dont have to find and use a mouse to push their buttons while weaing a VR headset, this might not seem like a big deal but in practice -at least for me- it will get you killed!

 

I personally think using the VR head tracking is actually more realistic than scrambling around for my mouse and then moving the cursor over to whatever button I need.

 

It's time consuming and will often get you killed in a panicked emergency whereas 'look and push' will often save your life. For added realism you can push with the left hand on throttle and then lean in to whatever button you are looking at to imaginarily push it with your right hand if you really want added realism! :)

 

Pressing a button with your hands while flying is enormously more efficent than using a mouse especially in tight situations and I do think using VR head tracking to look at what button you indend to push and then pushing it, more realistically mirrors the real life situation of using your hands.

I really have died quite alot because I lost valuable time using the mouse and in emergencies a few seconds can be the diffrence between life or death. Not only that but it gets on my nerves after a while and looking for the mouse kind of breaks immersion as nobody flys a plane with a mouse!

 

It's personal preference I guess with no real right answer but after getting used to head tracking and the mouse mapped to my HOTAS I find it very difficult to go back and personally really love it.

 

You are absolutely right --- to each his/her own, and if it works for you no reason to change it!

 

But, just to clarify a possible misconception: there is absolutely no scrambling around to look for the mouse!

 

It is strapped to my left thigh. (Technically, it is velcroed to a aviator's kneeboard that is strapped to my left thigh).

 

I know EXACTLY where it is at all times, and can find it with about as much speed, precision, and accuracy as any HOTAS button. I mean seriously: it's so natural and built into muscle memory, I'm not even aware I am doing it.

 

As for immersion, I think people take their fingers off the HOTAS to flick a switch, and that is replicated pretty well by the touch-pad-strapped-to-leg solution. On the other hand, people often do not need to turn their head and look down with laser focus on a particular switch and hold that laser focus while pressing HOTAS switch to flip it ... so IMHO that's less natural than a mouse!

 

But again, to each his/her own!

[ben1101]

You can set a button on the joystick as mouse wheel up and down.

 

I have a modifier on my G940 joystick so that it turns the D-pad on the joystick into scroll wheel up and down and D-left and D-right being the left and right mouse button's. Using a program called JoyToKey I have assigned the mini joystick on top as the mouse position to help manipulate switches that are hard to look directly at. Set the wheel buttons to repeat fast to make setting alt/ADF quicker.

 

HTH

[D3Magic]

I wear a finger mouse and feel better compared with trackball.

[some1]

What kind of lefthand trackball you have? Was it hard to get used to operate it with the left hand(assuming it is not your preferred)

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

The one posted by Bearfoot. I don't have any sticktion problems, but you have to pop put the ball from time to time and clean what's under it. It's definitely optical tracking, not mechanical.

 

It takes a week or so getting used to it, but then it's pretty efficient.

 

That Kensington model has terrible mouse scroll though, a touchpad-like thingy instead of normal wheel.

[metzger]

Yes but real pilots also dont have to find and use a mouse to push their buttons while weaing a VR headset, this might not seem like a big deal but in practice -at least for me- it will get you killed!

 

I personally think using the VR head tracking is actually more realistic than scrambling around for my mouse and then moving the cursor over to whatever button I need.

 

It's time consuming and will often get you killed in a panicked emergency whereas 'look and push' will often save your life. For added realism you can push with the left hand on throttle and then lean in to whatever button you are looking at to imaginarily push it with your right hand if you really want added realism! :)

 

Pressing a button with your hands while flying is enormously more efficent than using a mouse especially in tight situations and I do think using VR head tracking to look at what button you indend to push and then pushing it, more realistically mirrors the real life situation of using your hands.

I really have died quite alot because I lost valuable time using the mouse and in emergencies a few seconds can be the diffrence between life or death. Not only that but it gets on my nerves after a while and looking for the mouse kind of breaks immersion as nobody flys a plane with a mouse!

 

It's personal preference I guess with no real right answer but after getting used to head tracking and the mouse mapped to my HOTAS I find it very difficult to go back and personally really love it.

Try to set frequency in the FM radio im the a10 with mouse locked on the center of your view or reach a switch somewhere behind you :) this feels far from natural to me. As was already pointed real life you dont have to stare with laser accuracy on every switch or button to operate it, you dont stare at your turn indicators in your car do you? :)

The controls one would need in hot situations should be mapped on the hotas.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[Wolf8312]

Try to set frequency in the FM radio im the a10 with mouse locked on the center of your view or reach a switch somewhere behind you :) this feels far from natural to me. As was already pointed real life you dont have to stare with laser accuracy on every switch or button to operate it, you dont stare at your turn indicators in your car do you? :)

The controls one would need in hot situations should be mapped on the hotas.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

 

Yes to be honest I havent got the same system setup for the A10 but that one is probably going to require voice attack in the end I think! The modules I use mouse buttons mapped to my HOTAS have either spare buttons, or non essential functions mapped to the HOTAS which I personally find the mouse keys to be more useful in tight or emergency situations, for example landing gear, eject etc. This method certainly does have problems and limitations and I ended up in the mig 21 having to map important mouse wheel functions to my keyboard. Basically it works better for some modules than others.

 

It's not about staring with laser accurucy but about being able to press a button ASAP without fumbling around for a mouse.

 

As mentioned in another post already I doubt I will change the A10 setup unless I can find some similarly non essential buttons but even then I dont really want to alter the A10's authenticity as I have a warthog setup.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Wolf8312

[Los]

Basically whatever one does they have to be able access their controls by feel and muscle memory. I.m not sure what kind of flailing is required to access a mouse but if it's any at all, then it is not in he right location.

 

Time to build that vr cockpit! That what I'm doing.

 

Los

[Bearfoot]

... without fumbling around for a mouse ...

 

Again, to each his own.

 

But again, there is absolutely no fumbling around for a mouse!

 

When you want to scratch your nose in the dark, do you find it instantly and seamlessly and without trouble or fumbling around to find it? With your eyes closed, can't you easily reach down to touch your knee exactly and precisely without fumbling?

 

The answer is, of course, yes: it is not problem once you get past a particular threshold of sensory experience (say ... 3 years old?).

 

Same with a mouse strapped to your leg.

 

No fumbling. No searching. No looking. No struggle. No confusion. It's there, and your hand reaches for it just a smoothly and exactly and precisely and accurately as if it was part of your body, because, in a sense, it is.

[Wolf8312]

Again, to each his own.

 

But again, there is absolutely no fumbling around for a mouse!

 

When you want to scratch your nose in the dark, do you find it instantly and seamlessly and without trouble or fumbling around to find it? With your eyes closed, can't you easily reach down to touch your knee exactly and precisely without fumbling?

 

The answer is, of course, yes: it is not problem once you get past a particular threshold of sensory experience (say ... 3 years old?).

 

Same with a mouse strapped to your leg.

 

No fumbling. No searching. No looking. No struggle. No confusion. It's there, and your hand reaches for it just a smoothly and exactly and precisely and accurately as if it was part of your body, because, in a sense, it is.

 

Well I don't have my mouse strapped to my leg! I personally like using the head tracking with the mouse mapped to the HOTAS and find it faster and more convenient. If that makes me a three year old then so be it.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Wolf8312