Disable limiter

[DarkFire]

Oh, my understanding was that it only limited G onset rates and such.

 

Even if there is a G limiter, it's not adaptive to gross weight like the one we have (not even the warning buzzer changes depending on weight IRL)

 

It's a combined G and AOA limiter, as confirmed by cockpit photos of the Su-27S and also confirmed by YoYo in a previous thread on the subject. However, it's calibrated for an all-up weight of 21,400 Kg which is pretty light for a Flanker. It also takes a little time to keep up with stick inputs, so a full stick deflection in a heavy flanker at high speed can still result in over-G and in extreme cases airframe failure.

 

Apparently the original Su-27S did / does not have an adaptive limiter. More modern versions apparently do, but that's something that only came in with variants such as the Su-30MKi which also have a much more modern care-free-handling FBW system.

[Esac_mirmidon]

The OПР works taking in count:

 

1.- AoA indications.

2.- G load indications.

3.- How fast or slow the pilot moves the control stick.

4.- Height indications.

5.- Flight mode ( Landing-Take off-Flying )

 

So the AoA limiter reaction depends on how high you are flying, how much overload and AoA you are pushing and how fast or slow you are moving the stick. The limiter reacts initialy with vibrations on the stick and a force of 15 Kg against free stick movement, until a point where the stick "returns" to the center, or " Stops " with a deep kick.

 

A very interesting read in russian about the AoA - G limiter development and the struggling with extreme maneuvers without a propper counter of the limiter. In Russian.

 

http://tkachenko.in.ua/ogranichitel-predelnyh-rezhimov.html

Edited April 25, 2017 by Esac_mirmidon

[holimoli]

big thanks for the cheat! now I can do my 23.3gs again!

 

 

Nah honestly. Really really big thanks! I'll try it out.

[Stuge]

I just tap wheel brake button with varying frequency in case i need a little extra G...

[SinusoidDelta]

It's a combined G and AOA limiter, as confirmed by cockpit photos of the Su-27S and also confirmed by YoYo in a previous thread on the subject. However, it's calibrated for an all-up weight of 21,400 Kg which is pretty light for a Flanker. It also takes a little time to keep up with stick inputs, so a full stick deflection in a heavy flanker at high speed can still result in over-G and in extreme cases airframe failure.

 

Apparently the original Su-27S did / does not have an adaptive limiter. More modern versions apparently do, but that's something that only came in with variants such as the Su-30MKi which also have a much more modern care-free-handling FBW system.

 

Check page 3 in this article.

 

Without disabling the limiter you can exceed the AoA limit by pull with an extra 34lbs of force. I don't know if this was common to all us-27's.

 

Maybe thats the function the W key is supposed to provide.

[LJQCN101]

Oh, my understanding was that it only limited G onset rates and such.

 

Even if there is a G limiter, it's not adaptive to gross weight like the one we have (not even the warning buzzer changes depending on weight IRL)

 

Apparently the original Su-27S did / does not have an adaptive limiter. More modern versions apparently do, but that's something that only came in with variants such as the Su-30MKi which also have a much more modern care-free-handling FBW system.

 

Just for inference. I read in Chinese Su-27SK manual which uses the same FBW system as Su-27S, the AOA-G Limiter is scheduled with air data, store configs and gross weight.

Edited May 19, 2017 by LJQCN101

[Pocket Sized]

Just for inference. I read in J-11A manual which uses the same FBW system as Su-27S, the AOA-G Limiter is scheduled with air data, store configs and gross weight.

 

IRL, it is a fixed limit designed for a certain weight range (the mission planners would take this into account for fuel planning).

 

In the sim, it adapts to gross weight (due to the staggering number of people trying to do 9G rolling pulls with full fuel). Personally I'd love to go back to the old (realistic) system where you had to carefully manage G above a certain GW.

[microvax]

Its just a joystick input profile modification.

So yeah, I dunno, would not regard this as a cheat.

If it would be recognized as such, every modification of input to game functions to work well with our relatively lack luster equipment, in comparison to a full cockpit, would be a cheat.

So switch mods to make warthog switches work, CCW and CW for rotaries, toggles for 2 position switches etc. etc., and I honestly do not believe such gives an unfair advantage.

 

Meanwhile I am just happy with muh Mirage functionality.

5G for fighting peasants and dropping bombs, 9G for fighting normally and auto jettison all the non A2A missile things and the everything the hydraulics will do override for full panic.

Fidelity FTW.

[DarkFire]

Check page 3 in this article.

 

Without disabling the limiter you can exceed the AoA limit by pull with an extra 34lbs of force. I don't know if this was common to all us-27's.

 

Maybe thats the function the W key is supposed to provide.

 

Interesting article, thanks for posting that. I believe that the pilot of an Su-27S can override the limiter by exerting an extra force on the stick, but the ACS system also has a switch to disable the limiter, which is what I think holding down the W key simulates. It'd probably make more sense if the in-cockpit switch could be animated and the W key made a toggle rather than hold-to-activate.

[Pocket Sized]

I guess if you feel strongly enough about this, you should report it as a bug. Show the real world video, the in game video with and without the W key. And see what the response is.

 

This is something the devs told me shortly after the 1.5.5 update - the current G limit implementation is purely for gameplay reasons. The old, fixed limit was realistic.

 

Here is how the system operates IRL:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2949916&postcount=52

Edited May 17, 2017 by Pocket Sized

[DarkFire]

I was under the impression that the DCS limiter is calibrated to 21,400Kg all-up weight. Did it change at some point to being a variable one? I honestly hadn't noticed.

[Esac_mirmidon]

I dont think so. It seems a fixed value for me also.

[Ironhand]

This is something the devs told me shortly after the 1.5.5 update - the current G limit implementation is purely for gameplay reasons. The old, fixed limit was realistic.

 

Here is how the system operates IRL:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2949916&postcount=52

My apologies. I was in a rush and quoted you by mistake. I actually meant to post that for someone else.

[Pocket Sized]

I was under the impression that the DCS limiter is calibrated to 21,400Kg all-up weight. Did it change at some point to being a variable one? I honestly hadn't noticed.

 

1.5.5 made it variable depending on gross weight. It will be ~6G when maneuvering with full fuel.

[DarkFire]

Just for inference. I read in J-11A manual which uses the same FBW system as Su-27S, the AOA-G Limiter is scheduled with air data, store configs and gross weight.

 

So to be clear, is the J-11A manual saying that it's dynamically variable based on current payload & fuel mass remaining?

[LJQCN101]

So to be clear, is the J-11A manual saying that it's dynamically variable based on current payload & fuel mass remaining?

 

Yes. It has a system to compute the limiter value according to air data, store config and gross weight. If the system is malfunction, the limiter value is fixed to 18 deg AOA, and 6G below 0.85M / 4G after 0.85M.

 

 

I also see in Operation Limitation chapter, that maximum allowed load factor is 8G below 0.85M at 21400kg gross weight, and 9G below 0.85M when internal fuel is less than 2700kg. Not sure whether the FBW take those figures into the system.

 

This chart draws the G limit at 8.5G with a gross weight of 18920Kg.

 

This is with 21400Kg:

Edited May 19, 2017 by LJQCN101

[SinusoidDelta]

I think part 2 of the flight manual explains an overload control system, I think it was called ODA? I got the impression the pilot manually adjusts the flight control law gain via knobs according to the locations of stores and gross weights.

 

I was only reading sections through google translate so I could be way off.

[LJQCN101]

I think part 2 of the flight manual explains an overload control system, I think it was called ODA? I got the impression the pilot manually adjusts the flight control law gain via knobs according to the locations of stores and gross weights.

 

I was only reading sections through google translate so I could be way off.

 

I think you mean Kш(Ks) ratio on the left panel?

 

It is automatically adjusted when FCS is in "Flight" and "Take-off/landing" mode.

 

You can also turn on manual ratio adjust switch (Kш руц) and adjust the ratio using the red knob.

Edited May 19, 2017 by LJQCN101