A question about F-15 radar

[Marcast]

Approaching dangerous zones I normally use the 160 nm range scale in the VSD. But when I approach a contact in front of me, it always appears about in the center of the VSD. It looks like the radar's maximum range were about 80 nm, but in this case why is there the 160 nm option?

[QuiGon]

Approaching dangerous zones I normally use the 160 nm range scale in the VSD. But when I approach a contact in front of me, it always appears about in the center of the VSD. It looks like the radar's maximum range were about 80 nm, but in this case why is there the 160 nm option?

 

It depends on the target size (among other things, like aspect, altogether resulting in the so called radar cross section or RCS). Larger targets like bombers, tankers, and other big aircraft show up earlier than small fighter size targets.

[Marcast]

It depends on the target size (among other things, like aspect, altogether resulting in the so called radar cross section or RCS). Larger targets like bombers, tankers, and other big aircraft show up earlier than small fighter size targets.

 

Well, it also happens with a Il-76 Awacs....not really a stealth plane :)

[lemoen]

Well, it also happens with a Il-76 Awacs....not really a stealth plane :)

 

IL76 has mega jammers which confuddles your F15 radar.

[feefifofum]

I would expect to detect an A-50 at upwards of 90 miles, head-on, assuming the RADAR was configured properly (narrow beam, high PRF)

 

As QuiGon says many factors play in to the distance at which you can detect targets. Check out Sryan ' s F-15 combat guide from some great info with supporting images on how the RADAR works. Just a google away. :)

[Marcast]

Check out Sryan ' s F-15 combat guide from some great info with supporting images on how the RADAR works. Just a google away. :)

 

 

A great guide, thanks

[Sweep]

Approaching dangerous zones I normally use the 160 nm range scale in the VSD. But when I approach a contact in front of me, it always appears about in the center of the VSD. It looks like the radar's maximum range were about 80 nm, but in this case why is there the 160 nm option?

 

Because the real F-15 with the real APG-63 can detect and very possibly track a MiG-29 at 90nmi. Edit: And that's going for an APG-63 from '91. It only gets better and better... :D

 

Ours is more like detection at 60 and track at 50.

 

If and when we get an APG-63 modeled more like the real thing, that 160nmi display range will be very useful. :)

 

IL76 has mega jammers which confuddles your F15 radar.

 

IL-76, IL-78, and A-50 have no jammers in-game.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Sweep

[AegisFX]

Does the f15 series have radar sharing datalink like the su27/33 has modeled

 

I assumed it was a real life thing not fully modeled, so we sorta missed out.

[Marcast]

It seems that I have a problem, I cannot move the radar's azimuth to left and right either in LRS or TWS mode. I can move the scan area up and down but not horizontally. I also set a command for that on my joystick but no way (it works fine in russian aircrafts). Is it normal?

[Sweep]

Does the f15 series have radar sharing datalink like the su27/33 has modeled

 

I assumed it was a real life thing not fully modeled, so we sorta missed out.

 

IRL yes, in-game no. On the MPCD, look for the "SIT" page button. Think TAD from A-10C but more A/A mission oriented. Non-existent in-game, unfortunately. I'd imagine a proper F-15C module would have it, ditto F-15E.

 

It seems that I have a problem, I cannot move the radar's azimuth to left and right either in LRS or TWS mode. I can move the scan area up and down but not horizontally. I also set a command for that on my joystick but no way (it works fine in russian aircrafts). Is it normal?

 

The scan area left/right don't do anything, you can use the TDC slew to change azimuth scan area though. Not sure what kind of stick/throttle/etc you're using, but on the Warthog I use the Coolie Hat Up/Down for the scan area up/down, and those commands that change the azimuth from 120 to 60 degree scan for Coolie left/right.

[winchesterdelta1]

Because the real F-15 with the real APG-63 can detect and very possibly track a MiG-29 at 90nmi. Edit: And that's going for an APG-63 from '91. It only gets better and better... :D

 

Ours is more like detection at 60 and track at 50.

 

If and when we get an APG-63 modeled more like the real thing, that 160nmi display range will be very useful. :)

 

 

 

IL-76, IL-78, and A-50 have no jammers in-game.

 

I have noticed this is not true anymore. At least not in all situations. for some strange reason on some missions on the 14th i can track up to 6 bandits at 80+ miles with altitudes ranging from on the deck to angels 30. And i can see there every move in TWS. They show as clean contacts. But when locked on in TWS or STT it go's to HOJ mode??? (but sporadically i can still TWS them when not in jammer form that distance

i'm not sure if this is suppose to be like this, or just a new recent feature. But as i said. This only happens in certain missions i do not remember the name off.

 

I will put up a video later on.

[Sweep]

I have noticed this is not true anymore. At least not in all situations. for some strange reason on some missions on the 14th i can track up to 6 bandits at 80+ miles with altitudes ranging from on the deck to angels 30. And i can see there every move in TWS. They show as clean contacts. But when locked on in TWS or STT it go's to HOJ mode??? (but sporadically i can still TWS them when not in jammer form that distance

i'm not sure if this is suppose to be like this, or just a new recent feature. But as i said. This only happens in certain missions i do not remember the name off.

 

I will put up a video later on.

 

I'll look into it...Gonna test all of the heavies (IL-76/78, A-50, E-3, KC-135, C-130/C-17)

 

Will edit with results

 

Edit I: Tested all IL-76 variants, air starts about 150 miles apart. Could soft lock (I.e. TWS track) the first guy (A-50) at 120ish NMI, could NOT STT. It would go MEM and drop track when STT was attempted. This was HPRF, as we.. Could hard lock at about 90nmi. None of them have jammers

Edit II: Tested E-3, KC-135, C-17. No jammers. Just some problems hard locking between detection range and about 95nmi

Edit III: E-2, C-130, An-26, no jamming.

 

It is possible, though, that there's a jamming contact out there as well like a fighter, maybe stacked with the clean heavies you're tracking or something???

Edited March 17, 2017 by Sweep

[Chrinik]

IRL yes, in-game no. On the MPCD, look for the "SIT" page button. Think TAD from A-10C but more A/A mission oriented. Non-existent in-game, unfortunately. I'd imagine a proper F-15C module would have it, ditto F-15E.

 

Negative, the first F-15s to get functional DL capabilities were Strike Eagles in 2001 to communicate with Navy Hornets and the system sucked balls from what reports I read and was very basic.

 

The F-15Cs followed much later.

 

DL was not part of the MSIP II upgrade package that we have in game. The MSIP II upgrade took a while for the whole fleet, so assume a mid-90ies Eagle.

 

Technically the F-15 in the game should have the APG-70 radar, which was the first upgrade to the APG 63 and was fitted to all F-15Cs and Ds with MSIP, it had ground mapping and everything.

You guys don´t want the original APG-63...the original APG-63 was a piece of shit with a MTBF of 15 hours<.<

 

Most of the upgrades for the APG-63 thus focused on making it more reliable along with more capable.

The APG-63(v1) came in 2001 aswell.

 

Really nailing down what kind of era Eagle we have is hard, as the general name "F-15C" stayed consistent to this day. My reasoning is that the MSIP II upgrade put the MFCD in and added Amraam compatibility, APG-70 with NCTR among other things, so that´s my first going off point. The next is the introduction date of the AIM-120 C in 1996, which is why my absolute best estimates place it roughly between that and before 2001, as other upgrades would have been done then. The game keeps referring to the APG-63 aswell, confusing matters even more. If we do indeed have one of the Eagles that recieved MSIP and retained the APG-63 it would narrow it down further...but would also make little sense as the Eagle in game very clearly has NCTR. If it is a post 2001 Eagle, then other stuff is missing.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Chrinik

[Sweep]

Edit: How many times have we edited!? I think I'm replying to your post from before 15:24 UTC?

 

Negative, the first F-15s to get functional DL capabilities were Strike Eagles in 2001 to communicate with Navy Hornets and the system sucked balls from what reports I read and was very basic.

 

The F-15Cs followed much later.

 

DL was not part of the MSIP II upgrade package that we have in game. The MSIP II upgrade took a while for the whole fleet, so assume a mid-90ies Eagle.

 

The Eagle got the FDL starting in 1995. You're correct in that it wasn't part of MSIP II, however.

 

It is quite possible that F-15Es didn't get the FDL until 2001, but I have no info. Just for example, look at AIM-9X...Fielded on F-15Cs like ten years ago? Not yet fielded on USAF F-15Es, as far as I know.

 

Technically the F-15 in the game should have the APG-70 radar, which was the first upgrade to the APG 63 and was fitted to all F-15Cs and Ds with MSIP, it had ground mapping and everything.

You guys don´t want the original APG-63...the original APG-63 was a piece of shit with a MTBF of 15 hours<.<

 

Most of the upgrades for the APG-63 thus focused on making it more reliable along with more capable.

The APG-63(v1) came in 2001 aswell.

 

Really nailing down what kind of era Eagle we have is hard, as the general name "F-15C" stayed consistent to this day. My reasoning is that the MSIP II upgrade put the MFCD in and added Amraam compatibility, APG-70 with NCTR among other things, so that´s my first going off point. The next is the introduction date of the AIM-120 C in 1996, which is why my absolute best estimates place it roughly between that and before 2001, as other upgrades would have been done then. The game keeps referring to the APG-63 aswell, confusing matters even more.

 

Don't forget about the APG-63 mods that were done in the 80s. a v0 radar in the 90s wouldn't be the same as the one from '78.

 

I think the MPCD was part of the basic C.

 

Honestly, I'd take an APG-63v0 from 1993. Though I'm not going to turn down an APG-70! :D

 

Edit/1131 EDT: As for the timeframe, I think it's from 2000? There are things that are way out of place, though. Hopefully BST will address those if/when (WHEN) we get a full up F-15C.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Sweep

[AndytotheD]

Only a few F-15Cs got AN/APG-70s. It wasn't a fleet wide thing.

[Sweep]

Only a few F-15Cs got AN/APG-70s. It wasn't a fleet wide thing.

 

I thought so! Wasn't completely sure, though.

[Frostie]

What I can gather the cockpit is either apg-63 psp or early v1.

 

http://www.f15sim.com/images/left_console_new.jpg

Edited March 17, 2017 by Frostie

[winchesterdelta1]

Here it is. But only 1 fighter sized target just entering 80 miles in this vid. I did track them till i could get a radar ID on it. That's why i know it where fighters.

 

 

Description:

 

Is this normal behavior?:

 

1. TWS solid track to Jammer when locked.

2. Long range detection of enemy aircraft past 80 miles.

 

In this video you only see 1 target coming from past 80 miles t angels 1. But i have seen groups of fighter targets that i can detect and track every move from 80 to 90 miles. Most of the ones i see are jamming. But sometimes i can even bug them from 80+ miles.

 

Is this normal? Why are some jammer targets always seen as Jammer stropes, but others are seen as solid tracks until you lock them? Is it normal i can detect fighter sized targets from over 80 miles in DCS?

The weird thing is that i can not do this in every mission. And this is recently.

[Frostie]

 

The Eagle got the FDL starting in 1995. You're correct in that it wasn't part of MSIP II, however.

 

It is quite possible that F-15Es didn't get the FDL until 2001, but I have no info. Just for example, look at AIM-9X...Fielded on F-15Cs like ten years ago?

 

Eighteen F-15C based at Elmendorf got JTIDS in '95. This was the test bed squadron whose F-15s received upgrades to APG-63(v)2 AESA.

 

JTIDS was cancelled in '96 due to cost and the planned FDL for F-15C was MIDS fitted in the early part of the 21st century.

[red_coreSix]

Is this normal? Why are some jammer targets always seen as Jammer stropes, but others are seen as solid tracks until you lock them? Is it normal i can detect fighter sized targets from over 80 miles in DCS?

The weird thing is that i can not do this in every mission. And this is recently.

 

No, that shouldn't be that way. The radar doesn't change waveform when bugging a target in TWS. It makes no sense that you'd loose track just like that.

[winchesterdelta1]

Let me make my own topic for this.

[GGTharos]

The list of MSIP II upgrades is lengthy and you won't find them on wikipedia, probably not really available on the web either.

 

According to some active pilots, the MSIP II upgraded radar (not specifically the -70s, but those too) working in its most degraded performance was as good as the best tuned-up pre-MSIP radars.

 

Even an older, smaller, noisier non-planar array F-4's radar could pick up a MiG-21 at 60nm, and report 55nm pickup look'down at the MiG lifted off - and that's not even a test of maximum detection distance - it's just the longest distance at which the HAVE DOUGHNUT tests started - and that info you can probably find on the web - the official HD report.

 

What I can gather the cockpit is either apg-63 psp or early v1.

 

http://www.f15sim.com/images/left_console_new.jpg

[Sweep]

Eighteen F-15C based at Elmendorf got JTIDS in '95. This was the test bed squadron whose F-15s received upgrades to APG-63(v)2 AESA.

 

JTIDS was cancelled in '96 due to cost and the planned FDL for F-15C was MIDS fitted in the early part of the 21st century.

 

My sources say JTIDS was cancelled in 1989 and FDL was fitted in '95 onwards.

 

Odd.

[Frostie]

My sources say JTIDS was cancelled in 1989 and FDL was fitted in '95 onwards.

 

Odd.

JTIDS was planned for 1998 but testing from 1989 onwards brought reliability and cost issues, it was eventually cancelled in 1995, the 18 F-15s were before this as the test bed, I don't see a date but probably late 80s and not 1995.

MIDS FDL was planned for 1998 but incorporating this into F-15s put them back another 2 years.

 

F-15 MIDS FDL IOC - 2000, deliveries 2001 on.

 

 

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1235/MR1235.appc.pdf

 

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1235/MR1235.chap9.pdf

[Sweep]

Will read those if I get a minute. I'd imagine it's possible that what I read meant the FDL program started in '95? The source text wasn't very specific unfortunately. :(

 

Looks like the -34 revision was released with JTIDS information right around the time it was cancelled, too!