Dogfighting tactics?

[Hammer1-1]

Ive been flying the spit for a few weeks now, and the one thing that really alludes me is that this thing overheats very fast.

 

Playing the quick start mission in 2.0.5 against the Bf109s, its almost impossible for me to not finish the mission simply because it just overheats too quickly. I keep the radiator ports full open during maneuvering, but almost after 2 minutes my engine begins to smoke and steam incessantly.

 

What are your tactics to counteract this issue? Its obvious to me that the spit doesnt like altitudes higher than 16k feet Climbing and out turning the Messers isnt an ordeal in the spit, which I fully appreciate...but engine management is baffling me really badly right now.

[philstyle]

Use MAX 2850 RPM, and MAX Boost at +10 to +12.

Only use full throttle (max boost) for 20 to 30 seconds at a time. Keep airspeed above 180MPH.

 

If you get slow (i.e nose up high, or below about 130mph in a turn) with high-RPM (above 2800) and high boost (+10 or more) the engine is likely to pop.

 

Also, turn tight at the start of a turn whilst the airspeed is still high. As the speed dops below 180, reduce the turn rate to stay fast.

 

All of this I have learned from other people commenting on my YT videos. So I'm just passing on what was passed on to me. I take no credit for this.

[razo+r]

Use MAX 2850 RPM, and MAX Boost at +10 to +12.

Only use full throttle (max boost) for 20 to 30 seconds at a time. Keep airspeed above 180MPH.

 

If you get slow (i.e nose up high, or below about 130mph in a turn) with high-RPM (above 2800) and high boost (+10 or more) the engine is likely to pop.

 

Also, turn tight at the start of a turn whilst the airspeed is still high. As the speed dops below 180, reduce the turn rate to stay fast.

 

All of this I have learned from other people commenting on my YT videos. So I'm just passing on what was passed on to me. I take no credit for this.

 

You can use full rpm and throttle without problem, just it will take less time until the engine dies

 

But you can give yourself a few seconds/minutes more if you open the rads before merge

[philstyle]

You can use full rpm and throttle without problem, just it will take less time until the engine dies.

 

I level flight or when fast yes. But in combat most people forget engine management because they are too busy with the contacts. You tart turning, or climbing, the airspeed goes down and you forget you are on full RPM / Boost and then "pop"! goes the Merlin.

 

It's better when learning to start of with safer settings and slowly edge the envelope up as you become more experienced; (at least you get more than 2 minutes of combat) than to push the engine right from the start and get a bad experience all the time.

[razo+r]

I level flight or when fast yes. But in combat most people forget engine management because they are too busy with the contacts. You tart turning, or climbing, the airspeed goes down and you forget you are on full RPM / Boost and then "pop"! goes the Merlin.

 

It's better when learning to start of with safer settings and slowly edge the envelope up as you become more experienced; (at least you get more than 2 minutes of combat) than to push the engine right from the start and get a bad experience all the time.

 

You can also use it in combat, the pilot just needs to read the temp gauge from time to time, that's the only challenge and thing you should never forget

 

But of course when you go vertical, i always idle my engine then or it will blow very very soon

 

My personal tactic is in dogfight use everything according to the situation

 

When in level flight, 2850 and +7

When merged 3000 rpm and max boost (avoid altitudes from 10k to 14k feet)

When he's running i either go back to level flight settings or just dropping boost a bit

And I always check the temps frequently, that's the most important thing to do....

 

What I also can give you as a tipp, start climbing high, then you are either level with the germans or higher

[Hammer1-1]

I almost always try to keep the engine around 8-10 boost with the radiator flaps open, but all the turning bleeds off speed in a hurry and dogfighting after 2-3 minutes just kills the engine.

[razo+r]

I almost always try to keep the engine around 8-10 boost with the radiator flaps open, but all the turning bleeds off speed in a hurry and dogfighting after 2-3 minutes just kills the engine.

 

Then look more at the temp gauges and adjust it according to the situation/temp

[flyco]

I know that the suggestion that the DCS Spitfire is too prone to blowing the engine due to low IAS has been refuted, but I still find it difficult to believe that running for more than a couple of minutes at less than 180 kias would be so disastrous.

 

In support, I quote from the contemporary RAF Pilot's notes for the Spitfire IX.

 

Para 54. The speeds in m.p.h. (knots) for maximum rate of climb are

Sea level to 26,000 ft - 160 (140) I.A.S.

26,000 ft to 30,000 ft. - 150 (130) I.A.S.

etc.

 

Admittedly elsewhere it does give the recommended climbing speed as 180 m.p.h. This is explained as to give 'ease of control (especially at higher weights)'. This is a fairly common recommendation because the loss due to flying at 5 kts less than the optimum is much greater than the gain from flying at 20kts higher than optimum.

 

Of course, we will never know for sure. The chances of anyone flying a Spitfire today, at a speed likely to blow an engine, just to satisfy DCS fans is (I hope) fairly remote.

[Hammer1-1]

Then look more at the temp gauges and adjust it according to the situation/temp

Here's something even more interesting: I was able to fly the spit at max boost for 3-5 minutes at both 16k feet and 2k feet. Higher altitudes produce higher oil pressure and lower oil temperatures and regular coolant temps than at lower altitudes. Ill see if I can stream it on youtube, but I basically kept trying to pop the engine in most flights...I flew for almost an hour trying to blow the engine out at high rpm and boost, yet dogfighting isnt exactly...as rough as Ive put this aircraft through.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Hammer1-1

[razo+r]

Here's something even more interesting: I was able to fly the spit at max boost for 3-5 minutes at both 16k feet and 2k feet. Higher altitudes produce higher oil pressure and lower oil temperatures and regular coolant temps than at lower altitudes. Ill see if I can stream it on youtube, but I basically kept trying to pop the engine in most flights...

 

up at 16k feet the second supercharger kicks in...

[Hammer1-1]

up at 16k feet the second supercharger kicks in...

Yeah, and around 16,5 the engine becomes fuel starved and starts to conk out.

 

And something new happened during this test flight: at the last second, all of my controls just stopped responding. No idea why either...couldnt control ailerons, elevators, engine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c4x6lB6Y_g

[rtimmons]

Here is a tactic I use .....I am not that good at dog fighting but I can sometimes beat 109s and 190s and come home alive.

 

When turning push the throttle and rpm up and gain altitude. After completing the turn pull the throttle and rpm back and loose altitude to gain speed while cooling the engine. When @ 200 to 220 mph (more is better)you can begin to throttle up and turn again while gaining your altitude back. After a few loops you may need to brake out and fly off straight for a while to cool your engine and more so if your loops are really tight. Watch the temp gauge. Return to the fight when you have temp margin again.

 

I learned from watching apeoftheyear videos on youtube. Basically you have to use the engine to do what gravity can not and let gravity do what it can do while your engine cools.

 

slyfly

[Wunderwolf]

Yeah, and around 16,5 the engine becomes fuel starved and starts to conk out.

 

And something new happened during this test flight: at the last second, all of my controls just stopped responding. No idea why either...couldnt control ailerons, elevators, engine...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4c4x6lB6Y_g

 

Turn on Fuel Pump switch ...

 

Btw. Our Engines doing fine all the time at +12 Boost...

[Hammer1-1]

Turn on Fuel Pump switch ...

 

Btw. Our Engines doing fine all the time at +12 Boost...

Where is that switch at? And I dont have a problem with +12 boost either flying straight and level...its the 4+boost during maneuvering that kills my engines.

[razo+r]

right beneath the elevator trim wheel

[Wunderwolf]

Where is that switch at? And I dont have a problem with +12 boost either flying straight and level...its the 4+boost during maneuvering that kills my engines.

 

The +12 boost comment wasn't specificaly for you. :)

 

As raz+r already stated ... the switch is beneath the elevator trim. You can even "save" the engine while its kill himself at 16500+ feet altitude.

Like chuck's guide suggest for the "START-UP PROCEDURE" i always turn it on. Hence fly straight to 25000 feet altitude without any incident.

[Hammer1-1]

Ok, found the switch and did a test flight...and engine cooling was a lot more manageable. Thats a bit of a surprise for me. On top of that, I was able to pull 160mph at 12 boost in a tight turn for 1 minute without the oil temperature or the radiator temp gauges increasing. So Im guessing that A) you should have your fuel pump on, and B) keep your airspeed at greater than 160mph, and C) keep your radiator flaps open.

[CHDT]

Isn't it too early to discuss combat tactics with the Spit IX, as now it is opposed to later aircrafts ?

Of course, it will change when the G-6 and the A-5 are in the game.

[Hammer1-1]

Isn't it too early to discuss combat tactics with the Spit IX, as now it is opposed to later aircrafts ?

Of course, it will change when the G-6 and the A-5 are in the game.

no

[CHDT]

no

 

So, according to you, the speed is not a parameter in aerial dogfighting.

Ok.

[OnlyforDCS]

right beneath the elevator trim wheel

 

Say what? Can you please post a picture or something similar of that switch? Isn't the fuel pump switch located on the steering column, and how can you even start the engine without engaging it?

[RedShoes]

Do not mix Main Fuel Tank Cock lever (in 1. image) with Fuel Pump switch (in 2. image) ;-)

 

 

[OnlyforDCS]

Ok thanks. So what does that fuel pump switch do? I haven't touched or even seen it before to be honest. (Even though I did pore over Chuck's guide, naturally).

[razo+r]

Ok thanks. So what does that fuel pump switch do? I haven't touched or even seen it before to be honest. (Even though I did pore over Chuck's guide, naturally).

 

It transfer fuel from the tank to the engine...

 

If you turn it on, it will prevent the engine from dying above 14k feet or so.

 

Also if you turn it on while doing the start up, you don't need to operate the wobble pump handle

[OnlyforDCS]

Ok, that clears it up, thank you. I doubt I ever reached that altitude in the Spit, no wonder I never even bothered with the switch. :)