MiG-23 Discussion

[frixon28]

After searching through the forums, I could not find any information or discussion topics about the MiG-23, so I decided to start this. This is not necessarily about the development (or anything for that matter) of a MiG-23 variant in DCS World. I just want to have a thread that provides you (eventually) anything you want to know about the MiG-23, and where everyone could talk about all things Flogger.

 

Below I tried to post a basic history of the MiG-23. The website I got my information from, http://www.militaryfactory.com , goes a lot more in depth and is a great read if you have the time.

 

Development

Development of the MiG-23 started in the early 1960's to counter the limitations of the MiG-21 (the MiG-21 lacked the range, payload and was too dependent on ground-based interception systems). This new aircraft was to be produced and used by both the Soviet Air Defense Force (PVO) and the Soviet Tactical Air Forces. The aircraft was to be able to have the ability to take off from short runways, and to be larger and heavier in design than previous MiG fighters. In ordered to accomplish this a MiG design team decided to use a variable geometry/swept wing in order to comply with the ability to take off from short runways and offering the ability to greater payloads. This test aircraft known as the Model 23-11 (there was a Model 23-01 that was very different), first flew on April 10, 1967. Both models appeared at the 1967 Domododevo airshow, being nicknamed the Flogger and Faithless respectably by western observers. The Model 23-11 was chosen in 1968 due to superior capabilities for carrying ordnance while still being a good performer. The MiG-23 entered service in 1971 and was available in large numbers starting in 1973.

 

Model 23-01

Model 23-11

 

Entry into Service and Major Fighter Variants of Soviet Service

When the MiG-23S (50-60 production run) entered service, it was seen as a disappointment due to having to use the MiG-21's "Jay Bird" radar instead of a newly developed "Sapfir-23" radar. This made the aircraft incapable of BVR engagements, severely hindering it as a front line fighter. Soon after the M model, and the first massed produced model, came out with the intended Sapfir radar and became the respectable fighter it was intended to be. The ML variant had a lighter airframe, new engine, and could pull 8.5g's compared to the 8 of previous versions. The ML also had a newer version of the Sapfir radar, with better ranges of 56 miles compared to 37 of previous radars. The P model was a more dedicated interceptor version of the ML with a new radar version. The bis variant had a better hud. The MLD was the main production variant included an upgraded Safir radar, new avionics, chaff and flare dispensers, and R73 capable.

 

MiG-23S

MiG-23M

MiG-23ML

MiG-23P

MiG-23MLD

 

Fighter-Bomber MiG-23's

The MiG-23B (24 production run) was the first bomber oriented version of the Flogger. Changes include a redisgned fuselage(notably with the nose), armored windshield, fire resistant fuel tanks, new navigational/attack radar suite, built in laser ranger finder, tv camera installed, early missle warning sytem, new engine and a shortened fuselage. The BN varaint (624 production run) from 1973-1985 was the main attack version of the Flogger, with new navigation and attack systems and a less powerful engine. Eventually the true ground attack aircraft, the MiG-27 appeared and took over the BN's role.

 

MiG-23BN

 

 

MiG-23 Armament

MiG-23 contains a 23mm Gsh-23L cannon with 260 rounds in the fuselage. The Flogger has 6 hard points, which allow for a total of 6,600lbs (around 3000kg). Can carry AA-7,8,10,11 and 12 eventually air to air missiles. Ground payloads for variants are located in the charts below, though it included the standard "dumb" bombs, rockets, gun pods, air to surface misses and nuclear weapons.

 

MiG-23 Displaying Various Missles

MiG-23M Air to Air Inventory

MiG-23MF Air to Air Inventory

Romanian MiG-23MF with various weapons

 

Operational Service

The MiG-23, like most Soviet Era MiG aircraft, was exported heavily. Now when the USSR manufactured aircraft (including the MiG-23), for each main variant their was 2 other sub variants for 3 total similar models. There was the main production models (listed above) that were intended for service in the USSR. There was than a slightly downgraded version (almost always avionic and radar suites) that was given to allies in the Warsaw Pact, for example countries like Poland and Bulgaria. There was than a third variant featuring far inferior avionic and radar suites that was given to growing communist nation's or third world countries, these are your middle eastern Soviet supporters and countries like Cuba. As you can guess with over 5000 examples produced throughout the 1970's-1980's in the Cold War, this bird has seen some serious use. Therefore I will only list the basics of its air to air history, because there is simply not enough documentation on the amount destroyed by ground based systems. This is especially complicated due to the current situation in the middle east where the Flogger is still seeing extensive combat. Below is a gallery of photos of MiG-23's in the field,in combat, and destroyed. Source for data below is http://www.migflug.com

 

MiG-23 Overall Air to Air Kills for Losses (kills on left, losses on right)

25 kills for 102 losses

 

Syrian border clashes 1974-1981 (Syria) 3-2

Lebanon War 1982 (Syria) 1-30

Israeli UAV shoot down 2002 (Syria) 1-0

Iran-Iraq War (Iraq) 16-56

Gulf War (Iraq) 0-8

No Fly Zones (Iraq) 0-1

Gulf of Sidra Incident (Libya) 0-2

Soviet Afghan War (USSR) 0-3

Iran-Afghan border violations (USSR) 4-0

Ethiopia-Eritrean War (Ethiopia) 0-1

 

Soviet MiG-23's at Bagram AB in Afghanistan

Libyan MiG-23MS being intercepted by a US Navy F/A-18 Hornet

A Libyan MiG-23 shot down in the famous Gulf of Sidra incident in 1989 by a US Navy F-14A Tomcat

MiG-23's over Cuba

MiG-23 Demonstrating It's Afterburner

MiG-23 firing AA-7 "Apex" Air to Air Missle

Gorgeous in cockpit shot of an East German MiG-23

 

More Pictures of the Flogger in posts below due to picture limit

Edited May 3, 2017 by frixon28

[frixon28]

Captured Syrian MiG-23 used for testing by Israel

A Destroyed Iraqi MiG-23

A Close Up one of the famous abandoned Iraqi MiG-23's around Balad AB

Syrian Air Force MiG-23 shot down by Syrian Rebels

MiG-23 Syrian Air Force preparing for take off

One of the famous pictures of a MiG-23 used by Libyan Rebels moments before impact after being shot down

Syrian MiG-23 Takeoff

Libyan MiG-23 doing an extremely low level pass (note the human crouching on the ground) video for those interested to watch stupidity at its finest

Abandoned Soviet MiG's

Sapfir ML radar for MiG-23ML

Edited April 30, 2017 by frixon28

[MiGCap1]

The Gorgeous in cockpit shot of an East German MiG-23 is photographed by me on 22 August 1990. Thank You for the flowers!

 

I got three flights on this day, the last one including a performance demo of the FLOGGER, which until then I only had seen from a distance on an encounter over the Baltic.

 

 

Here come four more shots from this day. Enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jacobs]

Oh man, I love the Mig-23, it's a shame no one has ever made a detailed simulator base on it. The best option we have now is Third wire sims, too arcade for my tastes...

[frixon28]

The Gorgeous in cockpit shot of an East German MiG-23 is photographed by me on 22 August 1990. Thank You for the flowers!

 

I got three flights on this day, the last one including a performance demo of the FLOGGER, which until then I only had seen from a distance on an encounter over the Baltic.

 

Thank you very much for those fantastic photos, clearly you have had an interesting life! Were you a crew chief or public relations personnel?

[WinterH]

The Gorgeous in cockpit shot of an East German MiG-23 is photographed by me on 22 August 1990. Thank You for the flowers!

 

I got three flights on this day, the last one including a performance demo of the FLOGGER, which until then I only had seen from a distance on an encounter over the Baltic.

 

 

Thanks for sharing, amazing shots!! Must have been some experience!

[MiGCap1]

Thank you very much for those fantastic photos, clearly you have had an interesting life! Were you a crew chief or public relations personnel?

 

 

 

Aviation Journalist and Public Affairs Officer / Air Crew German Air Force Reserve. ;)

[MiGCap1]

Thanks for sharing, amazing shots!! Must have been some experience!

 

 

Yes, a very deep experience, it was my first Russian jet I flew in. One month later I got the opportunity to fly in the MIG-29 twice and finally became the Reserve PAO of the German FULCRUM squadron after reunification, getting sorties in the MiG-29 frequently. Now I am mainly into Eurofighters. But I will never forget my FLOGGER rides.

[probad]

 

this is definitely one of the finest flogger shots ive ever seen

[WinterH]

I find the MiG-23 to be an interesting aircraft to look, I'm sure many would find it ugly, and perhaps it kind of is from certain angles, but I personally think it has a characteristic beauty, a quite unique look to it.

 

It has one of the lousiest success records among what's often considered as the 3rd generation of jet fighters, but it was quite capable nevertheless.

 

While even the MLD didn't quite bring it up to an epitome of agility, the Flogger apparently was the acceleration incarnate...

 

If and when we get the DCS module of it, I'm sure it will be a unique experience among fighter/interceptors.

 

But I must say I am even more interested in getting its ground attacking sibling, the MiG-27. I hope we'll get them both soon in DCS :).

[probad]

the best part is, unlike the f-14 you only have manual sweep, so you'll have an excuse to remind your wingmen to lock s-foils in attack position.

[Basher54321]

Yes, a very deep experience, it was my first Russian jet I flew in. One month later I got the opportunity to fly in the MIG-29 twice and finally became the Reserve PAO of the German FULCRUM squadron after reunification, getting sorties in the MiG-29 frequently. Now I am mainly into Eurofighters. But I will never forget my FLOGGER rides.

 

Lucky you and great shots there so thanks for posting - can only assume they are second Gen MiG-23MLs perhaps?

[Mainstay]

A MiG-23 (from an unknown Middle Eastern Country) being intercepted by a US Navy F/A-18 Hornet

 

Thats a Libyan MiG-23MS

[Mainstay]

MiG-23 (Uknown Variant) Air to Air Inventory

 

This is an MiG-23MF

 

Single air pressure sensor, Deeper / wider intakes and open pylons

[MiGCap1]

Lucky you and great shots there so thanks for posting - can only assume they are second Gen MiG-23MLs perhaps?

 

 

 

Yes, MLs.

[MiGCap1]

this is definitely one of the finest flogger shots ive ever seen

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank You.

 

 

That's my favourite. From the dusk sortie:

 

 

 

[Mainstay]

Beautifull photo !

 

This is the the photo and MiG-23 i fell in love with.

The ultimate version MLD

 

[OverStratos]

There was than a third variant featuring far inferior avionic and radar suites [...] like Cuba.

Common internet misconception.

 

It has one of the lousiest success records among what's often considered as the 3rd generation of jet fighters

When you only take into account the first and highly downgraded variants sold to the Arabs, then you´re mostly right, but there are countries in which hands was and extremely sucessful aircraft. Specially ML, MLD and MiG-27 variants.

 

While even the MLD didn't quite bring it up to an epitome of agility

Could you compare the MLD to any other 3rd generation fighter in terms of agility? (graphs included).

 

I hope you´re not comparing the MiG-23 against a 4th generation aircraft.

[frixon28]

@Mainstay thanks for the correction. Fixed it

 

@OverStratos do you have a source/evidence saying that the Floggers given to 3rd world countries were not heavily downgraded from the Soviet versions?

Edited May 3, 2017 by frixon28

[Raven King]

I don't care that it lost against the Tomcats in Libia, I don't care it got bombed in Irak or humiliated by the israelis, I don't care everybody things it is one of the worst fighters in history, I don't care if people think it's ugly!!

 

Somebody develops a mod for the Mig-23/27 and DUDE: I am SOOOOOOO buying it!!

 

The Flogger is like that humble average-looking girl who would be ever-loving, caring and faithful-to-death if you just stopped going after the hot chicks and give her one chance...

 

And I even dare to say that, like most russian fighters, the Flogger has been more a victim of the ineptitude of the air forces it has served with, than the western abilities or superior technology.

[Raven King]

the best part is, unlike the f-14 you only have manual sweep, so you'll have an excuse to remind your wingmen to lock s-foils in attack position.

 

The Force is stroooong with this one!!!

[pepin1234]

I find the MiG-23 to be an interesting aircraft to look, I'm sure many would find it ugly, and perhaps it kind of is from certain angles, but I personally think it has a characteristic beauty, a quite unique look to it.

 

It has one of the lousiest success records among what's often considered as the 3rd generation of jet fighters, but it was quite capable nevertheless.

 

While even the MLD didn't quite bring it up to an epitome of agility, the Flogger apparently was the acceleration incarnate...

 

If and when we get the DCS module of it, I'm sure it will be a unique experience among fighter/interceptors.

 

But I must say I am even more interested in getting its ground attacking sibling, the MiG-27. I hope we'll get them both soon in DCS :).

 

I don’t believe the Libyan Mig-23 downed by F-14 was a late version, will be good know which Mig-23 version was in that combat.

 

The Syrian Mig-23 did damage badly several F-15 but of course Israel always knew how ambushed the Syrians. Syrian Air forces never have initiative in any action and the Soviet never helped to change this catastrophic tactic. Probably they will repeat the same mistake. It is a nonsense. Without iniciativa in war action you only will expect punch on your face.

Edited January 24, 2018 by pepin1234

[Mfezi]

I'm from South Africa and I have actually spoken with several pilots who faced the MiG-23 in Angola while flying the Mirage F1. This was a pretty even match-up, since the Mirage F1 and MiG-23 were not only of the same generation, but had many similar characteristics. At the time, the Angolans (the pilots were actually almost exclusively Cuban) had a big advantage in that the R-60/AA-8 had a limited all-aspect capability unlike the missiles available on the F1CZ at the time.

 

Anyway, the South African pilots that I spoke to all had huge respect for the MiG-23. There were several engagements between Mirage F1's and MiG-23s, but most ended inconclusive for a number of reasons - usually missiles that didn't track or didn't explode (from both sides). One engagement, however, did not end so good for us in that one of the Mirages were damaged quite badly by what is assumed to have been an R-60, which resulted in - well, you can read the story directly from the pilot's perspective here:

https://saafmuseum.org.za/arthur-d-piercy-27th-september-1987/

I think anyone who is interested in the MiG-23 will find his account of that engagement fascinating.

[Kev2go]

I don't care that it lost against the Tomcats in Libia, I don't care it got bombed in Irak or humiliated by the israelis, I don't care everybody things it is one of the worst fighters in history, I don't care if people think it's ugly!!

 

Somebody develops a mod for the Mig-23/27 and DUDE: I am SOOOOOOO buying it!!

 

The Flogger is like that humble average-looking girl who would be ever-loving, caring and faithful-to-death if you just stopped going after the hot chicks and give her one chance...

 

And I even dare to say that, like most russian fighters, the Flogger has been more a victim of the ineptitude of the air forces it has served with, than the western abilities or superior technology.

 

ITs an aircraft that didnt quite reach its full potential due to some design shortcomings.

 

what prevented MLD from being a dog fighter incarnate is that it still had manual adjusting of the variable sweep wing unlike F14A, and as the Mig21, the Mig23 has poor cockpit visibility. Rear aspect is completely blind.

 

With the swing wing being kinda expensive to maintain it is however not that surprising that Nations retired Mig23's sooner than Mig21s, or dumped them in favour of the Mig29;s when they became available. Afterll the Mig23MLD entered service in the 1982. just 1 year before the Mig29 came about, when the ERa of 4th generation fighters was now in full swing. ( pun not intended). A bit too late. But still no doubt the best of the Mig23 fighter/interceptor variants.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Kev2go