Terrible VR stuttering in 1.5 with 1080 Ti and Oculus Rift

[VampireNZ]

I get a little annoyed when I see replies like - I had stuttering in DCS too....but then found out my card wasn't physically installed properly!

So obviously would have had issues with performance in ALL games, not solely DCS related at all - yet makes it sound like the act of installing their card correctly solved his DCS stutters....as if it had anything to do with DCS at all.

I see a lot of 'solutions' that are not related to DCS stutters - but system-wide effects on performance. I believe the majority of people (myself included) have a 1080ti and are experiencing stutters with DCS alone....no problems with any other games.

 

So 'solutions' like updating bios drivers and installing your graphics card properly are not very relevant for this specific forum. Just my 2c.

[epolta]

Have to agree. 1080ti Flawless in other games. Just picked up the red flag for the warthog in the Nellis training range and have terrible micro stutters to the point where I wont fly it anymore until resolved. Tried removing and reinstalling drivers and re-run Oculus setup. Appeared to fix it at first but then reverted back to stuttering. 1.5 Seems fine.

[Jabbers_]

Guys I should be getting my Ti tomorrow, if I have any problems I'll report directly to ED so we can get this fixed, If I dont have any problems I'll let you know.

[hansangb]

Thanks Jabbers. I'm getting my 1080Ti Hybrid on Thursday. I've never had any stutter issues ever, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. I know others have said "it works fine for other games, so it must be a ED/DCS issue" but conversely, other users of DCS using other NVidia cards are not having issues. So a driver issue specific to Ti is very apropos. Didn't the original 1080 have issues for Rift users?

[fitness88]

Thanks Jabbers. I'm getting my 1080Ti Hybrid on Thursday. I've never had any stutter issues ever, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. I know others have said "it works fine for other games, so it must be a ED/DCS issue" but conversely, other users of DCS using other NVidia cards are not having issues. So a driver issue specific to Ti is very apropos. Didn't the original 1080 have issues for Rift users?

 

 

 

1080 user here with no stutter.

[AussieM8]

Thanks Jabbers. I'm getting my 1080Ti Hybrid on Thursday. I've never had any stutter issues ever, so it'll be interesting to see what happens. I know others have said "it works fine for other games, so it must be a ED/DCS issue" but conversely, other users of DCS using other NVidia cards are not having issues. So a driver issue specific to Ti is very apropos. Didn't the original 1080 have issues for Rift users?

 

 

1080 user here, I only get Micro stutters if I enable mirrors and only if over towns down low. Frames drop to 22-27 anything over 45 FPS no stutters. Most settings maxed out, Pixel Density 2.0

[NeilWillis]

I think there is a big difference between configuration issues and hardware issues. Whenever you install new gear, there is always a driver to go with it. Installing a driver will reset the parameters to a default setting, which will rarely be what is required for DCS World. The key is not to panic, and start suggesting the new hardware is at fault.

 

Ask what people have found to work on their rigs first, and never rely on the settings being optimal straight out of the box. No matter how disappointing the initial results may be, there is no need to despair. Stuff as complex as a graphics card takes a while to optimize.

[VampireNZ]

Guys I should be getting my Ti tomorrow, if I have any problems I'll report directly to ED so we can get this fixed, If I dont have any problems I'll let you know.

 

I would be very interested if you had a look using the Oculus Tray Tool, as I get steady stutters/blips in the framerate as shown in the attached pic (edited to show what I mean) - even with plenty of 'headroom'. Get it exactly the same in Version 1.5.6 & 2.0 NTTR. This results in nauseating blips and tears when looking sideways etc.

 

Never seen anything similar in any other game in VR. I even get it in-game while paused at the menu select screen. Then if I go back to the actual main menu it is back to a steady 90. I also monitored the CPU while testing and I am lucky to even get close to 70% load on any core. Temps fine.

 

Tried ALL the 'suggestions' - drivers etc etc. Even re-installed a brand new version of 1.5 just to check this evening. Loaded up the P-51 and yep there they are, constant blips in the framerate. Is pretty much making DCS unusable..

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by VampireNZ

[hansangb]

There was a time when 1.5 was the better VR platform. Then a few months ago, that all changed. NTTR/2.0 became much smoother for VR. I'm guessing not much is being changed in 1.x world since it will be merged into one train. I take it you don't have 2.0?

 

If you try one of the instant machines (I have every module except Migs) and let me know what path you took, I can try to follow it and see what happens. It could be that I just don't notice it. And if I were to run the performance tool, it may be there.

 

So this could be a case of ignorance is bliss! :)

[Scooternutz]

VR (Rift) in 2.0 is vastly different in performance and clarity compared to 1.5. I have PD still at 1.5 but everything else is turned up and mirrors are on. Having the mirrors on just adds to the ridiculous immersion factor. Fuhget about it!

[Bearfoot]

There was a time when 1.5 was the better VR platform. Then a few months ago, that all changed. NTTR/2.0 became much smoother for VR. I'm guessing not much is being changed in 1.x world since it will be merged into one train. I take it you don't have 2.0?

 

If you try one of the instant machines (I have every module except Migs) and let me know what path you took, I can try to follow it and see what happens. It could be that I just don't notice it. And if I were to run the performance tool, it may be there.

 

So this could be a case of ignorance is bliss! :)

 

Could you try the F-5E instant mission take-off? I get ~45 FPS on the runway, and then after taking off, I circle back over the airport, and the FPS drops to 22-23. In this mission's case, I suspect it is the clouds/rain.

 

If you happen to have the F-5E BFM campaign, fly the second mission (familiarization flight) ... this, for me, is the real FPS killer.

[VampireNZ]

There was a time when 1.5 was the better VR platform. Then a few months ago, that all changed. NTTR/2.0 became much smoother for VR. I'm guessing not much is being changed in 1.x world since it will be merged into one train. I take it you don't have 2.0?

 

If you try one of the instant machines (I have every module except Migs) and let me know what path you took, I can try to follow it and see what happens. It could be that I just don't notice it. And if I were to run the performance tool, it may be there.

 

So this could be a case of ignorance is bliss! :)

 

Not sure if talking to me? But I mentioned in my post I get exactly the same behaviour in version 1.5 and 2.0 (Edited to make it clearer I was talking about versions not PD...)

Aircraft - doesn't matter, location - doesn't matter. Just being inside the DCS virtual world = regular stutters displayed in the TT as per screenshot.

 

VR (Rift) in 2.0 is vastly different in performance and clarity compared to 1.5. I have PD still at 1.5 but everything else is turned up and mirrors are on. Having the mirrors on just adds to the ridiculous immersion factor. Fuhget about it!

 

Hiya Scooter - been a while! How is the 16th treating ya, been a while since I flew the Falcon with you guys (8 years or so!). Yea I am trying to persist with 2.0 NTTR, just re-installed a fresh version of 1.5.6 to dbl-chk the stutters, but they are there also - is weird. I also run 1.5PD and it is pretty nice...I made the mistake of trying out 2.0PD, and yep that looks real nice lol! So easy to read the instruments etc...but figured I better drop it back till I can sort out these graphics issues I am having. I really don't want to leave DCS for another 3 years (only just came back to DCS...) and hope this stuff gets fixed....but the sound of the crickets when I mention this issue around here is deafening lol.

 

Would really like to pick up the Mirage, Spitfire and some Campaigns and get into it, but I just can't do it with the graphical issues I am having. I try really hard to ignore the nauseating stuttering and tearing in-game as DCS in VR is just an awesome experience, but after a while you just look out at the scenery jerking by and say "This is shite...." :cry_2:

Edited May 9, 2017 by VampireNZ

[Bearfoot]

Not sure if talking to me? But I mentioned in my post I get exactly the same behaviour in version 1.5 and 2.0 (Edited to make it clearer I was talking about versions not PD...)

Aircraft - doesn't matter, location - doesn't matter. Just being inside the DCS virtual world = regular stutters displayed in the TT as per screenshot.

 

 

 

Hiya Scooter - been a while! How is the 16th treating ya, been a while since I flew the Falcon with you guys (8 years or so!). Yea I am trying to persist with 2.0 NTTR, just re-installed a fresh version of 1.5.6 to dbl-chk the stutters, but they are there also - is weird. I also run 1.5PD and it is pretty nice...I made the mistake of trying out 2.0PD, and yep that looks real nice lol! So easy to read the instruments etc...but figured I better drop it back till I can sort out these graphics issues I am having. I really don't want to leave DCS for another 3 years (only just came back to DCS...) and hope this stuff gets fixed....but the sound of the crickets when I mention this issue around here is deafening lol.

 

Would really like to pick up the Mirage, Spitfire and some Campaigns and get into it, but I just can't do it with the graphical issues I am having. I try really hard to ignore the nauseating stuttering and tearing in-game as DCS in VR is just an awesome experience, but after a while you just look out at the scenery jerking by and say "This is shite...." :cry_2:

 

I know what you mean. It really sucks to have a degradation that is so bad that it totally ruins the experience. And, of course, there is no going back to 2D :( :( :(

 

I have not read all the stuff you tried, so apologies if you have already tried this, but are you able to roll back to a previous version of 2.0? Maybe one, two, or even three updates back? That will at least rule out one variable. And perhaps same for the NVIDIA drivers? Not sure if you can do that with Oculus. Of course, the complication will come if there are interactions between versions!

[Jabbers_]

So I tried last night with the Ti, first Normandy.... and holy cow the settings were maxed (no AA) and at 1.5PD I got 45+ fps constantly. For reference I couldnt really break 20FPS with the same settings on my 1080GTX.

 

As for 1.5, minimal difference. I boil this down to 1.5 just not being an optimized engine, and completely CPU bound. I didn't really notice many micro stutters, or anything out of the ordinary from my 1080GTX, seemed pretty much on par. This makes sense to me, as it is not optimized, and OC your CPU seems to increase frames even on the 1080.

 

If you wanna browse through this VOD

, I streamed it all last night on BF, you can see highs and lows as normal depending on the situation (smoke in particular seems to drop frames like crazy in 1.5). Not trying to promote here, just wanted to see if maybe im not seeing something you guys are, or if im just oblivious to it because ive had the 1080 for so long and it might have the same issue, who knows. It felt exactly the same to me though.

[VampireNZ]

So I tried last night with the Ti, first Normandy.... .

 

So you didn't try it with the Oculus Tray Tool to monitor your FPS or performance headroom consistency?

[Jabbers_]

So you didn't try it with the Oculus Tray Tool to monitor your FPS or performance headroom consistency?

 

I can, im less concerned about numbers, and more concerned about feeling and noticeable differences... call me old school but if it feels fine, what do i care about the numbers?

 

I will record some tests tonight of the debug overlay.

 

I think something you need to realize is that this game runs on 1 thread, therefore frame drops can occur even if you have "headroom" because your CPU is causing the drop not your GPU. Once the engine receives performance improvements like those in 2.1, and assuming many more to come, you should start seeing less of this.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Jabbers_

[hansangb]

Could you try the F-5E instant mission take-off? I get ~45 FPS on the runway, and then after taking off, I circle back over the airport, and the FPS drops to 22-23. In this mission's case, I suspect it is the clouds/rain.

 

If you happen to have the F-5E BFM campaign, fly the second mission (familiarization flight) ... this, for me, is the real FPS killer.

 

 

I will this weekend. I'll try it with my Titan X Hybrid (Maxwell) first. Then will swap in the 1080Ti Hybrid and report back.

[hellking]

DCS is CPU bound as long as you have a decent graphics card. I don't think you will see any appreciable advantage if you have a card better than GeForce 980.

 

What is interesting is that the great expensive zillion-core CPU's will not help your problem with DCS. What you need is a good single core performance CPU, which means a high CPU clock. I learnt this the hard way after buying a new expensive machine and having to give it away to my wife because it was worse than the 3 year old CPU which happened to have a high clock frequency (it is still a good CPU after 6 years).

[Jabbers_]

DCS is CPU bound as long as you have a decent graphics card. I don't think you will see any appreciable advantage if you have a card better than GeForce 980.

 

What is interesting is that the great expensive zillion-core CPU's will not help your problem with DCS. What you need is a good single core performance CPU, which means a high CPU clock. I learnt this the hard way after buying a new expensive machine and having to give it away to my wife because it was worse than the 3 year old CPU which happened to have a high clock frequency (it is still a good CPU after 6 years).

 

yes but soon to change :)

[VampireNZ]

I can, im less concerned about numbers, and more concerned about feeling and noticeable differences... call me old school but if it feels fine, what do i care about the numbers?

 

I will record some tests tonight of the debug overlay.

 

I think something you need to realize is that this game runs on 1 thread, therefore frame drops can occur even if you have "headroom" because your CPU is causing the drop not your GPU. Once the engine receives performance improvements like those in 2.1, and assuming many more to come, you should start seeing less of this.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't remember saying anywhere that I was concerned (cared?) about numbers either? I specifically stated I was interested in 'consistency'.

Please have another look at the screenshot I posted and you will see it is pinned at 90....with a massive blip in 'headroom' and associated dip in framerate. THIS is what I am interested in!

 

I have made several posts regarding neither my GPU OR my CPU are anywhere near maxed out...and I am still getting these blips and subsequent stutters.

 

I will just repeat my last, given everyone seems to assume it is CPU (please don't patronise me regarding CPU # core usage etc..I have been playing DCS since LOMAC) - I have also posted screenshots of CPU maximum figures during game play and none of my cores exceed 80% load at ANY TIME. This has nothing to do with either my GPU or CPU maxing out.

 

This is the main reason why I am particularly interested/concerned with this bug as in VR it is very nauseating (It just repeats over and over, even when paused!) and there is no obvious reason for it, and I only see it in DCS. At this point with DCS, 'high numbers' are the absolute least of my worries! lol. I would give my left nut just to get rid of these damn stutters - I hope you understand....?

Edited May 11, 2017 by VampireNZ

[Tj1376]

I'm sorry, but I don't remember saying anywhere that I was concerned (cared?) about numbers either? I specifically stated I was interested in 'consistency'.

Please have another look at the screenshot I posted and you will see it is pinned at 90....with a massive blip in 'headroom' and associated dip in framerate. THIS is what I am interested in!

 

I have made several posts regarding neither my GPU OR my CPU are anywhere near maxed out...and I am still getting these blips and subsequent stutters.

 

I will just repeat my last, given everyone seems to assume it is CPU (please don't patronise me regarding CPU # core usage etc..I have been playing DCS since LOMAC) - I have also posted screenshots of CPU maximum figures during game play and none of my cores exceed 80% load at ANY TIME. This has nothing to do with either my GPU or CPU maxing out.

 

This is the main reason why I am particularly interested/concerned with this bug as in VR it is very nauseating (It just repeats over and over, even when paused!) and there is no obvious reason for it, and I only see it in DCS. At this point with DCS, 'high numbers' are the absolute least of my worries! lol. I would give my left nut just to get rid of these damn stutters - I hope you understand....?

 

You only see it in DCS as its one of the very few games that relies heavily on single core throughput.

 

Using your CPU "percentage used" number as reported on in any of the windows monitoring tools is about as effective as a smoke detector. It works, it will give you an idea, but true pros use fire detectors.

 

Stop relying on these numbers you see. I see you are an engineer and I understand the intense desire to focus on the numbers, but you aren't measuring the right thing when you look at CPU usage. This game is single thread CPU bound. You have a hell of a pc with massive single thread performance. If the game dips in frame rates it's because the software isn't adequately using the CPU, which you are seeing in low CPU load percentages and feeling in poor performance in VR.

 

Go read Jabbers thread on 2.1 Normandy. Then watch his videos of it. This problem will get better in the merge where 2.1 makes better use of the CPU.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VampireNZ]

You only see it in DCS as its one of the very few games that relies heavily on single core throughput.

 

Using your CPU "percentage used" number as reported on in any of the windows monitoring tools is about as effective as a smoke detector. It works, it will give you an idea, but true pros use fire detectors.

 

Stop relying on these numbers you see. I see you are an engineer and I understand the intense desire to focus on the numbers, but you aren't measuring the right thing when you look at CPU usage. This game is single thread CPU bound. You have a hell of a pc with massive single thread performance. If the game dips in frame rates it's because the software isn't adequately using the CPU, which you are seeing in low CPU load percentages and feeling in poor performance in VR.

 

Go read Jabbers thread on 2.1 Normandy. Then watch his videos of it. This problem will get better in the merge where 2.1 makes better use of the CPU.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Thanks for your comments - noted and understood. Also, I am monitoring with CPUID HWMonitor.

 

While a deseng now, I am actually an ex-flight engineer....so I really have an intense desire to actually FLY! :pilotfly: .

I am a little OCD with numbers thou.....

 

If what you are saying is true, and it is simply a 'CPU throughput issue, then it should be abundently obvious on other systems too - all I am asking is for somebody to run DCS with the Oculus TT up and confirm the same inidications I am getting..arrg lol. :dunno:

 

(P.S I have seen the videos on Normandy.....)

Edited May 11, 2017 by VampireNZ

[epolta]

VampireNZ:

I get the symptoms you are describing in 2.0 NTTR red flag in the A-10. I can sit on the ramp at Nellis with 90 fps and watch it dip to 68 fps every three seconds. If I try moving my head during those 3 second dips I get the stutters. Unfortunately it's inevitable that I move my head every three seconds during normal scan. If I freeze my head position while taxiing and stare at the lines in the concrete I can see that studder every 3 seconds. It's almost like CPU is polling every 3 seconds and that causes the studder. I'm 4.5 GHz i7 1080ti and 64 gig mem...

[VampireNZ]

VampireNZ:

I get the symptoms you are describing in 2.0 NTTR red flag in the A-10. I can sit on the ramp at Nellis with 90 fps and watch it dip to 68 fps every three seconds. If I try moving my head during those 3 second dips I get the stutters. Unfortunately it's inevitable that I move my head every three seconds during normal scan. If I freeze my head position while taxiing and stare at the lines in the concrete I can see that studder every 3 seconds. It's almost like CPU is polling every 3 seconds and that causes the studder. I'm 4.5 GHz i7 1080ti and 64 gig mem...

 

THANKYOU! :notworthy:

 

I find looking straight ahead the disruption is minimal, but looking out the side in steady flight the ground jumps with these 'stutters'. I wasn't sure if it was just my system, the Oculus software (which uses far too much CPU while gaming!) or something else.

[Jabbers_]

@VampireNZ sorry I misunderstood, but your CPU not showing maxed out does not mean it isnt maxed out. The way windows works on a single threaded application is that it tries to be smart and move what synchronous work it can around to the various cores and hyperthreads. Because of this you may never reach 100% utilization as far as a CPU chart is concerned. But you are indeed maxing out the number of calculations that can be handled by your CPU in a synchronous operation. Hopefully that helps you understand more what I mean by DCS being CPU bound (it is bound to the limitation of the processing power of the process from your CPU). My case in point here is simply that if you add more CPU power, you get more frames.

 

Anyway, ya I dunno what your blip is, I will try and see if I get the same using the same tool. However, if I do I dunno that anyone here would be able to really answer it for you.

 

As for the looking to the side and seeing judder, I believe this is something else. I don't want to come to any conclusions publicly on this as I'm not 100% sure what it is, but have an idea... ill post more if I can confirm. I do see it as well at 90 fps, though, it is less obvious.