cannot reproduce Guns jamming

Tomsk · May 7, 2017

Hello,

I've noticed that it's very easy to jam the guns of the Dora under G. This may be realistic ... or it may not (personally I suspect it's over-modelled .. the 190 was well known for its ability to pull lead at high speed). However, what is definitely not realistic is that the Dora appears to be the *only* plane in which it is possible to jam the guns. None of the others suffer from this problem at all.

This is surely countable as a bug: either all planes should have the effects of G jamming the guns ... or none of them should.

Tomsk

Edited May 7, 2017 by Tomsk

Little_D · June 26, 2017

Hi gents,

+1 :thumbup:

Did the 190 not had a automatic unjam-system for the guns? The 109 has a manual one for the 30mm and an automatric one for the mg`s i think.

And i think i read somewhere that the 190 had also an unjam system.

regards

Little_D

IronJockel · September 13, 2017

This is a thing since the Dora got released.

ED?

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rogonaut · September 14, 2017

+1

Solty · September 14, 2017

Is it a permanent jam? Do you have to go back and repair?

IronJockel · September 14, 2017

Permanent.

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shonist · September 14, 2017

This is surely countable as a bug: either all planes should have the effects of G jamming the guns ... or none of them should.

Tomsk

No, its not, and the module has nothing to do with other modules. this is a simulation, not a pvp arcade game.

amazingme · September 14, 2017

I noticed the same thing, it definitely looks like a bug.

IronJockel · September 15, 2017

No, its not, and the module has nothing to do with other modules. this is a simulation, not a pvp arcade game.

Thing is that the mgs in the 190 are the same as in the 109 yet in the 109 they don't jam at all.

Plus the 20 mm in the 190 jammed less than the 30 mm on the 109 what is not represented in the game.

So it's either a bug or a missing feature in the other aircrafts.

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shonist · September 15, 2017

Thing is that the mgs in the 190 are the same as in the 109 yet in the 109 they don't jam at all.
Plus the 20 mm in the 190 jammed less than the 30 mm on the 109 what is not represented in the game.
So it's either a bug or a missing feature in the other aircrafts.

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it can be a bug, it can be a feature missing in other aircrafts, as you say. but it will not be a bug BECAUSE others dont have it.

Solty · September 16, 2017

Thing is that the mgs in the 190 are the same as in the 109 yet in the 109 they don't jam at all.
Plus the 20 mm in the 190 jammed less than the 30 mm on the 109 what is not represented in the game.
So it's either a bug or a missing feature in the other aircrafts.

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In P-51D at high G's there is a stoppage. So sometimes you are pulling lead and you shoot and MG's stop on their own. But they never get jammed. But we loose HMGs a lot from any little damage to the wing.

I only read that P-51B had jamming problems but P-51D mitigated that by changing the angle at which the guns were setup. D version seemingly didn't have too many jamming issues.

It is wierd though if the setup of the 109 and 190 of 13mm machine guns is the same and 190 gets a jam at the same G's. Although it is easier to pull higher G's with 190 so it might be the same but 109 might not be able to even pull that many G's without substantial horisontal stab trim.

One more thing, P-51D has overheating modeled (even overmodeled if you ask me) and weapons bend and bigger dispersion appears. German guns do not have that modeled (confirmed) because as the developers said there is no data on that, so no overheating modeled at all (?).

IronJockel · September 16, 2017

What has the p51 to do this this?

The same gun is prone to jam in plane a but not in b and we don't know why.

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Solty · September 16, 2017

What has the p51 to do this this?
The same gun is prone to jam in plane a but not in b and we don't know why.

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Nothing, just saying that in our P-51D there is something, so it is not only Fw190D that has it modeled, but it works differently. That is why I asked if it is permanent.

With 109 (plane a)and 190 (plane b), if those weapon systems are the same there is no excuse that one would work different than the other. But what I though, is that it might be possible that 109 cannot get into that high G's and therfore never get into a position of jamming the weapons.

At what G's does this occur?

IronJockel · September 17, 2017

Around 5g. What gun jams seems to be random.

Did test the 109 aswell. You can pull that amount of g with ease.

FoxDelta · September 20, 2017

the reference for bug or feature shall be the real life behaviour. so evaluate how often and in which situations the jam occured in real life, and thereafter request a change or not.

FoxDelta · September 20, 2017

to Solty

i dont think thats 100% correct,

position and attitude of the gun within the fuselage, reloading and rounds outthrow are very important

so the same guns in different fuselages may behave different

Solty · September 21, 2017

to Solty
i dont think thats 100% correct,
position and attitude of the gun within the fuselage, reloading and rounds outthrow are very important
so the same guns in different fuselages may behave different

That's why I said weapon systems not weapons and even given the example of P-51B and D where both guns are the same but the way they are set up makes a difference between being prone to jam and not having manyh issues with it. :)

FoxDelta · September 21, 2017

That's why I said weapon systems not weapons and even given the example of P-51B and D where both guns are the same but the way they are set up makes a difference between being prone to jam and not having manyh issues with it. :)

oh sorry. my fault.

IronJockel · September 27, 2017

So after multiple attempts on finding anything about Mg151/20 and the Mg131 jamming problems under G on the internet i gave up as i found nothing at all. Quite the opposite for the Mk108 (unsurprisingly), to the extend that the 20 mm was the preferred cannon for fight vs fighter combat.

What also could be noted that bad quality materials in the late war for the belts tend to cause some issues and that guns in the outer wing could suffer from the more flexible area they are built in that guns around "hard" area like the nose.

So from the sources i got, i can only conclude that we got a misrepresentation here: There should be no notable difference in jams between the Mg131 in the 109 or 190 and the Mk 108 should make more trouble than the Mg151/20. So jamming is either over-represented in the 190 and/or underrepresented in the 109.

If somebody has a better source please share, especially from ED as i really would like the reason for the current state, if it ain't a bug.

http://www.linkfang.de/wiki/MK_108

http://www.linkfang.de/wiki/MG_151/20

https://www.google.de/search?biw=1922&bih=897&q=mg151+jamming&oq=mg151+jamming&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160k1.899.899.0.1202.1.1.0.0.0.0.54.54.1.1.0.dummy_maps_web_fallback...0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.1.53....0.ffle3Vkno6Q

https://books.google.de/books?id=LCceCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA111&lpg=PA111&dq=mg151+jamming&source=bl&ots=shPO6beS9Z&sig=f8G01Z8Aov1sf2GNkQTr2OP9isU&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiJqK2g98XWAhVDVRQKHQcqAY04ChDoAQgvMAE#v=onepage&q=mg151%20jamming&f=false

Edited September 27, 2017 by IronJockel