F-16

[Stratos]

Very very interesting discussion, wondering If is there any good book that describes all the variants for the Viper.

[mvsgas]

Very very interesting discussion, wondering If is there any good book that describes all the variants for the Viper.

 

F-16.net will be the best but the thing is every F-16 is different, not only by versions (A/B/C/D/E) but also by block, country, year and sometime to an specific aircraft. For Example, currently USAF F-16C are block 25 to 52, block 40 to 52 have undergone CCIP upgrade and on some manuals are refer as F-16CM ( not an official designation) They now have similar and mirror capabilities (to an extend) But you still got the one off version, like Tulsa ANG block 42 with PW-229 engine found normally on Block 52. Another update only seen recently on USAF F-16C is over the Horizon communications.

You can see the antenna on the front of the vertical tail. This is a block 40 from Aviano AB, 90-0709

Click on images to enlarge

 

Here you can see the antenna on block 30 from the ANG

click on image to enlarge

Edited January 28, 2018 by mvsgas

[Basher54321]

Yes, but at the time of the YF-16/Early blocks. So later RADAR can do it,

 

Well yes - but if the USAF had decided they had a requirement from the start (1974) then all there is is conjecture because surely a lot more money and effort would have to have gone into delivering that capability for IOC - Will have to dig some more. :thumbup:

[mvsgas]

Well yes - but if the USAF had decided they...

 

Does this count as a whataboutism?

[Kev2go]

What? :huh:

 

?

[Kev2go]

I personally would like to have the most capable and most modern USAF version available.

 

F16CM block 50/52D.

 

CM were the F16C's CCIP upgrade program. Preferably those that had gone through all of it. SO to that will mean a Viper with LCD colour Multi function displays, Lightening 2 TGP, Link 16, JHMCS and aim9x integration.

 

A 21st Century Viper , a USAF sister aircraft to the Modern USN F/A18C hornet. It would also better compliment the A10C module since that is also 2000s upgraded aircraft.

 

Although admittedly Only Block 52 PLus seem to have the An/APG68 V9 radar which has SAR capability, so it seems the USAF viper will have worse A/G mapping quality compared to the Hornet that were getting ( SInce Phase 2 upgrades of the AN/APG73 will have SAR imaging)

 

Not sure if enough data is out there, but ED could also try to go beyond the Lightening 2, and potentially add the Sniper XR pod.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Kev2go

[Buzzles]

You know, this thread tells me whoever does make an F-16 is:

 

1. Going to need to be extremely explicit in their choice of variant, going right down to which sub block they've chosen.
   
2. Going to have to manage the disappointed people who complain it's not the particular F-16 they want with the particular features they want.
   

[Deano87]

You know, this thread tells me whoever does make an F-16 is:

 

1. Going to need to be extremely explicit in their choice of variant, going right down to which sub block they've chosen.
   
2. Going to have to manage the disappointed people who complain it's not the particular F-16 they want with the particular features they want.
   

 

Tbh, I'd be happy if we got a F-16A MLU like a lot of the european airforces have or a F-16C Block 25 or something. Anything newer or fancier than that is a bonus in my book :thumbup:

 

Lets face it a lot of us would just be happy to be in a Viper inside DCS regardless of what exact block it is.

[David OC]

Having the necessary systems built for the F18 will make it somewhat easier to build the F16, I'm guessing.

 

I think it's a good idea to hold off on the F16 and let DCS 2.5 settle down and let ED polish up 2.5, damage model, missions etc and finish off the F18

 

Then do the F16 latter, it will do well, many from that other sim would buy it, the problem is the full on fans coming here, they could really mess up this forum, because no matter what, the other sim will be better because, blah blah blah, feel sorry for the mods already.

 

 

.

 

Wow, really?

 

I would very much like to say no and everyone would be happy, the problem I've seen on my travels is many get upset because most got that sim and many many updates for free, because the 11 million dollar base code was leaked/stolen and then worked on for free.

 

So now when they have to pay for a sim module at today's pricing from a real company and it's not 100% perfect, or as good as there "favorite" this includes things like missile simulation, DC, etc. Then it could possibly get a little spammy in the forums perhaps? I do hope I'm wrong here :), I'm very much looking forward to the F18 and F16 (any version) eventually down the road.

 

 

.

[shagrat]

Lets face it a lot of us would just be happy to be in a Viper inside DCS regardless of what exact block it is.

Yes but the rest will start a veritable shitstorm with all bells and whistles... Plus the "know-it-alls" who will complain about wrong flight modeling and that it handles differently than in other sims, which must be "unrealistic". ;)

[mvsgas]

Maybe by the time the F-16 happens ( if it happens) we can have options.

- So if you want the block 40 with a WAC HUD as oppose to the normal WAR HUD ( like the Turkish block 40) or you want a Block 52 with the WAR HUD (Like some of ROK block 52).

- Different RWR like the ( circa 2010) old BAF compare to the RDAF Terma PIDS+ (I think all of the European AM/BM have some version of this now).

- They can modeled the PW-220/229 ( I hate those, but oh well) which will cover modernize block 20, 25 and 32, 42, 52. Could also be used on a full modeled F-15C/E.

- Or the GE-100/129 and use block 30, 40, 50 and F-15K/S

 

The most interesting to me would be Block 15 or older since I do not think the old cockpit has ever been modeled. No MFD, just a single radar scope. Limited chaff/flare. Old Flight Control Computer (FLCC), not Digital FLCC. The Italian version would be a good fit. All the old avionics but with limited AIM-120 use ( since it was lease, adding full AIM-120 capability cost to much)...I need to find that article, I thought it was code one magazine, maybe it was Combat Aircraft...

 

But this site would explode with hate and discontent if that happens.

Edited January 29, 2018 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

APG-66 version

http://www.radartutorial.eu/19.kartei/08.airborne/karte015.en.html

[Deano87]

Yes but the rest will start a veritable shitstorm with all bells and whistles... Plus the "know-it-alls" who will complain about wrong flight modeling and that it handles differently than in other sims, which must be "unrealistic". ;)

 

Heh but that firmly falls into the "Their Problem" category, as such I really don't care. And certainly not a reason to not do an F-16.

[Basher54321]

Does this count as a whataboutism?

 

Sadly no as my position never moved from #415 which is partly (e.g. the bit about carrying AIM-7s at IOC ) a "what if" scenario based on looking too far into the history of it - sorry if that was not clear.

 

 

 

The Japanese upgraded their F-4Es with an APG-66J - this looks better for your list

 

https://www.forecastinternational.com/archive/disp_pdf.cfm?DACH_RECNO=391

 

 

The single radar scope in the F-16A was called a REO (Radar Electro-Optical) - and could display EO video also.

[mvsgas]

According to the paper no AIM-7 capability until late 80's for ADF and mid 90's for other APG-66 user. Thanks, now we have a more specific time table.

[aileron]

I would very much like to say no and everyone would be happy, the problem I've seen on my travels is many get upset because most got that sim and many many updates for free, because the 11 million dollar base code was leaked/stolen and then worked on for free.

 

So now when they have to pay for a sim module at today's pricing from a real company and it's not 100% perfect, or as good as there "favorite" this includes things like missile simulation, DC, etc. Then it could possibly get a little spammy in the forums perhaps? I do hope I'm wrong here :), I'm very much looking forward to the F18 and F16 (any version) eventually down the road.

 

 

.

 

I imagine most of us here already have that sim... and we really, really want DCS F-16. Especially those of us who now fly VR exclusively.

[Stratos]

One question, can USAF blocks 40/42 and 50/52 shoot the Sparrow?

[Basher54321]

One question, can USAF blocks 40/42 and 50/52 shoot the Sparrow?

 

AFAIK that is a big no and you may actually need Sware/Hware changes to do it - if mvsgas worked on those later Blocks he probably knows.

 

 

Those blocks were developed under the MSIP (III) and IIRC from those docs going through the 1980s there was never any intention to integrate the AIM-7 whatsoever in the main USAF F-16 development program only AMRAAM.

 

The F-16A ADF seems to have been literally a one off for the USAF (ANG) - a relatively cheap interceptor to replace F-4/F-106 - although why Sparrow and AMRAAM?? - could only take a guess at the AMRAAM delay or AIM-7 might have had a bigger warhead - but not sure currently.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Basher54321

[Pilotasso]

The sparrow was a cheap upgrade and sparrows plentiful in the inventory. The AMRAAM didnt come before 1992.

[mvsgas]

One question, can USAF blocks 40/42 and 50/52 shoot the Sparrow?

 

Short Answer:USAF no, others: it depends

 

So AFAIK US ANG Block 15 ADF (circa 1990) ROCAF Block 20, Egypt Block 40 (not seen their other block with it). There are picture of US block 25 carrying for testing but never seen them operationally.

 

F-16 Block 15 ADF

http://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/album38/album68/ass

http://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/album38/album68/ajw

 

Picture of ROCAF Block 20 with AIM-7

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2679866&postcount=39

http://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/album39/album32/afn

 

Block 40

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2727261&postcount=301

http://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/album07/album34/9811

3hvdz62njUs?start=108

 

Block 52

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2727247&postcount=300

http://www.f-16.net/g3/f-16-photos/album39/album33/94270

Edited January 30, 2018 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

The AMRAAM didnt come before 1992.

AFAIK, is around the time they got AIM-7 capability. Aircraft started conversion/modification during late 80's. Probably did not have enough aircraft to field a squadron until 1990/1991. Pilots and weapons crews still need to get trained. So about the same time.

 

I know I did not see AIM-120 loaded until I was station in Osan AB on 2000/2001. (my previous base was Luke AFB, not much push for those aircraft to carry AIM-120, including training version)

Edited January 30, 2018 by mvsgas

[Kev2go]

AFAIK, is around the time they got AIM-7 capability. Aircraft started conversion/modification during late 80's. Probably did not have enough aircraft to field a squadron until 1990/1991. Pilots and weapons crews still need to get trained. So about the same time.

 

I know I did not see AIM-120 loaded until I was station in Osan AB on 2000/2001. (my previous base was Luke AFB, not much push for those aircraft to carry AIM-120, including training version)

 

 

 

The fa18c lot 20 series was produced in 1998. The version ed is representing one with 2000s era when taking consideration features/upgrades present that were no there in the 90s. And what does it have access to? Aim7f and m sparrows not just aim120.. By this point Amrams had been around some time. Certainly the aim7f of 70s vintage is entirely obsolete even. If there are leftovers in inventory.

 

So even if the f16 almost never carries it like the hornet they still could.

 

Cant recall off rhe top of mt head but if the manual references aim7s then it's fair game to be added. For greater versatility and more freedom for ordinance selection. Just like aim7 on the hornet, aim9p on the f15c or 6 maverick for the a10c.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Kev2go

[Stratos]

I will like to see Sparrows on a Viper.

[Pilotasso]

I almost forgot. Aren't the Iraqui and Egyptian Vipers limited to Sparrow? AFAIK those 2 operators were off limits for AMRAAMs exports but I might be mistaken I'm speaking of my own memory.

[RaceFuel85]

Personally i'd love a Block 40.

 

WAR HUD

LANTIRN/HARM capability

 

Skins for Aviano, Osan, Kunsan..

 

Oh yes