Setting realistic expectations for the Hornet

[neofightr]

just so we're at an understanding, most everyone in the pvp arena end up having to learn to fly without external views, padlock, labels or any other aids.

dcs has its own challenges -- lighting behaves differently in dcs than irl so things disappear and appear in different circumstances, but they nevertheless do disappear. lack of binocular vision [for most people] and lack of refraction makes canopy framing more problematic for visibility than in reality as well, although this issue is not so relevant to the hornet obviously.

 

but perhaps you can shed some light on just how significant the differences are between dcs visibility and your experiences beyond just ranges at which you spot things. ex. contrast vs ground, reflections, etc.

 

My observations are based on flight sims in general vs. real life.

 

I haven't messed around with the weather settings in DCS.

 

In real life the atmosphere causes a lot of washout with regards to ground, haze and cloud backgrounds.

 

The contrast variety of textures both in ground and clouds will obscure an aircraft very easily and at short ranges. Then there's that big old light in the sky causing all kinds of glare. But the single biggest factor is head position because in real flight your head is constantly in motion not only by the g forces but by the need to glance at gauges, radar screens and switches. HOTAS goes only so far.

 

All this back and fourth makes it very easy to lose track of the target.

 

Most of these factors are minimal in the sim arena with g-forces being absent and no realistic way of representing contrast washout that happens against ground and clouds.

 

I understand that sims have their own handicaps with regards to spotting a target. One good example is VR. The resolution is so low that it's almost impossible to id anything outside of 2 miles maybe.

 

I will need to investigate dcs more with regards to spotting in various weather patterns.

[r3m]

Neo, thank you for taking the time to answer questions from users of this forum!

 

Do you play a lot of multiplayer?

 

What was your favorite part of Top Gun training?

[NineLine]

And by the way I am determined to get ED to have sharks with laser beams firing off the F18 rails, that would be righteous but maybe too much drag for the ol' killer bee to handle.

 

I will take anything that helps me get a kill, I need all the help I can get ;)

 

But anyways guys, deleted a few more. If you have a problem with a post, use the report feature and ignore, that goes for all sides.

 

Play nice. Save the dogfighting for in the sim.

[neofightr]

Neo, thank you for taking the time to answer questions from users of this forum!

 

Do you play a lot of multiplayer?

 

What was your favorite part of Top Gun training?

 

I not big on multiplayer because I like to enjoy the action at my pace, and besides I would get smoked by you hardcore sim enthusiasts. God knows how many hours I would have to put in to get any good in these simulators nowadays.

 

I didn't go through Top Gun, I worked there as part of the strike training staff.

 

My favorite part of the strike training was doing low levels (500kts/500ft) they were quite a rush.

 

Especially when doing a pop-up maneuver that shoots you to the moon (500ft to 14kft in less than 40 seconds). Those were the absolutely best hornet moments for me.

[r3m]

I not big on multiplayer because I like to enjoy the action at my pace, and besides I would get smoked by you hardcore sim enthusiasts. God knows how many hours I would have to put in to get any good in these simulators nowadays.

 

With an Oculus and all your real world experience?!? I bet you would do better than you think! https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/ has regular pick up games - hope you consider trying one some day (particularly once F/A-18C early access drops)!

 

My favorite part of the strike training was doing low levels (500kts/500ft) they were quite a rush.

 

Especially when doing a pop-up maneuver that shoots you to the moon (500ft to 14kft in less than 40 seconds). Those were the absolutely best hornet moments for me.

 

Haha must have been an amazing experience! Can't wait to try this out in the module :thumbup::D:joystick:

[nicka117]

My dad used to tell me about a pop up roll ahead that he used to do in the a-7 when they went to Fallon. He would be on the deck and then pull up and then roll inverted and pull through, tracking the target upside down. Then you would roll out to release the bombs. He aborted the first one when he saw the ground rushing up at him. Said they were a blast once you got the hang of it.

[David OC]

Thanks for posting here neofightr, very interesting.

 

I also hope ED can add more turbulence at some point in the sim, to the rear of the carrier island, that wont kill the rest of the sim performance, would be nice to have it low around the airfields too.

 

The carrier turns into the wind when launching and for aircraft recovery, so it's always a 10 degrees offset to this wind right when landing? I can picture this turbulent airflow wiping around the island and then throw in some rough seas, sounds like fun... Well, a lot safer in the sim! I'm guessing IRL, heart rate is around 160 BPM, especially at night in bad weather.

 

How much harder are these landings to nail down at night, after a big long mission with fatigue? Or does the adrenaline kick back in again for that boost of focus. Is it easy enough to get enough sleep on the boat to combat the this fatigue, flight after flight? and did you work on your fitness every day to help stay in shape and focused ready for anything?

 

I know some of the mission makers here are throwing some chatter into there missions now, so does a flight chat much when on mission? If the mission was air to ground support, is the in flight chatter mostly about going back over the briefing, maps, where friendly's should be, air to air refueling positions, jtac frequencies etc.

 

Reason is I'm trying to set a mission up, simmers want more action tho, so no 3 hour flights to the AO. Needs to be more Hollywood action.

 

Not sure if you have read this book neofightr?

Fighter Pilot: Mis-Adventures beyond the sound barrier with an Australian Top Gun

 

"From the Pentagon to the South China Sea, the deserts of Australia to the wars of the Middle East, this book is as action-packed as it is entertaining."

 

It's very out there and funny Aussie style. You guy's are a little cRazy LOL, comes with the job right.

 

For the spotting in sim debate, I don't want it to become gamey for playability, when it is very hard IRL. I posted these examples in the Model Visibility Issues thread awhile back.

 

(Real close!)

 

Thanks again :thumbup:

 

On a side note the USS Ronald Reagan just docked here in Brisbane after 7 months at sea, that would be tough.

.

Edited July 23, 2017 by David OC

[neofightr]

Check out this video, One of the slickest done by pilots that I have ever seen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3qut-5MeEM

 

 

I have a lot more respect for the mirage since I just picked it up.

 

I am so envious of these guys in the video, just look at who comes to the party. Hah, and we US flying bubbas think we have the most fun with our flying, pfft.

Edited July 23, 2017 by neofightr

[neofightr]

My dad used to tell me about a pop up roll ahead that he used to do in the a-7 when they went to Fallon. He would be on the deck and then pull up and then roll inverted and pull through, tracking the target upside down. Then you would roll out to release the bombs. He aborted the first one when he saw the ground rushing up at him. Said they were a blast once you got the hang of it.

 

Funny how we still do this in today's jets. More for fun than tactical application but what a blast!

Edited July 23, 2017 by neofightr

[neofightr]

Thanks for posting here neofightr, very interesting.

 

I also hope ED can add more turbulence at some point in the sim, to the rear of the carrier island, that wont kill the rest of the sim performance, would be nice to have it low around the airfields too.

 

The carrier turns into the wind when launching and for aircraft recovery, so it's always a 10 degrees offset to this wind right when landing? I can picture this turbulent airflow wiping around the island and then throw in some rough seas, sounds like fun... Well, a lot safer in the sim! I'm guessing IRL, heart rate is around 160 BPM, especially at night in bad weather.

 

How much harder are these landings to nail down at night, after a big long mission with fatigue? Or does the adrenaline kick back in again for that boost of focus. Is it easy enough to get enough sleep on the boat to combat the this fatigue, flight after flight? and did you work on your fitness every day to help stay in shape and focused ready for anything?

 

I know some of the mission makers here are throwing some chatter into there missions now, so does a flight chat much when on mission? If the mission was air to ground support, is the in flight chatter mostly about going back over the briefing, maps, where friendly's should be, air to air refueling positions, jtac frequencies etc.

 

Reason is I'm trying to set a mission up, simmers want more action tho, so no 3 hour flights to the AO. Needs to be more Hollywood action.

 

Not sure if you have read this book neofightr?

Fighter Pilot: Mis-Adventures beyond the sound barrier with an Australian Top Gun

 

"From the Pentagon to the South China Sea, the deserts of Australia to the wars of the Middle East, this book is as action-packed as it is entertaining."

 

It's very out there and funny Aussie style. You guy's are a little cRazy LOL, comes with the job right.

 

For the spotting in sim debate, I don't want it to become gamey for playability, when it is very hard IRL. I posted these examples in the Model Visibility Issues thread awhile back.

 

(Real close!)

 

Thanks again :thumbup:

 

On a side note the USS Ronald Reagan just docked here in Brisbane after 7 months at sea, that would be tough.

.

 

I won't go into detail on comms, partly because I barely remember them but mostly it's a sensitive topic.

 

As rule of thumb, comms are short and to the point, you want to be minimal so as to keep the channel clear in case something new pops up. I am sure if you dig deep enough you might find something online. There were always somebody listening to the radios back in my day.

 

You guessed right about the tension at the carrier. Night time landings were stressful due to less SA of your surroundings and the unpredictability when you got into the burble just before landings.

 

Funny story about fitness, it is naturally important but one can go too far. For a while there, the marines couldn't figure out why some of their Hornet pilots were passing out when pulling Gs. It turns out some of these guys were working out just before doing their flights, that was a mistake because for a few hours after the workout your blood pressure is naturally lower and therefore less tollerant of G forces. The word got out quickly to work out after a flight not before it.

 

To comment on visibity and spotting in DCS after some testing last night I can definitely say it's a challenge with labels turned off and no radar lock on aids. Maybe it's my 4k settings but it was a bear to spot and maintain vis on targets.

 

Not big on reading modern day pilot personal accounts. It's just another bubba talking about his exploits for me.

 

Now I am big on reading about WW1 and WW2 and the old school stories just so I could get a feeling what it was like in that world.

[Esac_mirmidon]

Please stay on topic, one of the most interesting ones about F-18 Hornet.

 

Dont change it to a missiles PK debate and F-35 capabilities.

[goltuna]

FA-18C

 

Hello,

Excuse me i followed this link my aircraft appear on DCS startup but when i try to edit mission the aircraft doesn't appear on the choice. Have you an explanation and it should be very kind of you. https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/1959943/

Kind regards.

Goltuna

[Knock-Knock]

One of the things I look forward to the most, with The Bug, is to take out SAM sites. Dont know why, but I just enjoy teasing SAM sites.

 

What would a typical approach to this look like, for the F/A-18C, if that is even possible to talk about?

[Mule]

neofightr, could you describe a typical sortie from briefing to debriefing and give some sort of time scale. If there is such a thing as a typical sortie? No matter how mundane the detail, it would be great to hear that sort thing described so we can maybe try and emulate and build a mission in DCS when we get our grubby hands on this sim.

[neofightr]

One of the things I look forward to the most, with The Bug, is to take out SAM sites. Dont know why, but I just enjoy teasing SAM sites.

 

What would a typical approach to this look like, for the F/A-18C, if that is even possible to talk about?

 

Sorry that stuff is too sensitive to talk about.

[neofightr]

neofightr, could you describe a typical sortie from briefing to debriefing and give some sort of time scale. If there is such a thing as a typical sortie? No matter how mundane the detail, it would be great to hear that sort thing described so we can maybe try and emulate and build a mission in DCS when we get our grubby hands on this sim.

 

Happy to talk about time scale, typically it takes 2-3 hours for the start of briefing to engine start and 1-2 hours for debriefing. Time depends of complexity of the mission.

 

The thing I hated most about the process was drawing up the briefing board. Typically have to write it up freehand and I have terrible writing.

 

At Top Gun you have a whole class dedicated to picture perfect briefing boards, I would have failed that miserably.

 

Keeping it generic:

You start off the brief with admin, (radio freqs, loadouts, weather, alternate airports,expected take off speeds, any special procedure prior to taking the runway and emergency procedures review).

Next: the tactical portion (it's the bulk of the brief)

Finally: it's off to get suited up and to the plane.

 

Debrief, is going over what was done right and what was done wrong and commentary from all the players.

 

That's it really.

[mvsgas]

Did you guys pick your aircraft or just what ever was in the schedule with the correct (or close enough) configuration?

[neofightr]

Did you guys pick your aircraft or just what ever was in the schedule with the correct (or close enough) configuration?

 

Whatever was available, typically the maintenance dept had the planes configured ahead of time.

[mvsgas]

Same as us. Thanks

[David OC]

One of the things I look forward to the most, with The Bug, is to take out SAM sites. Dont know why, but I just enjoy teasing SAM sites.

 

What would a typical approach to this look like, for the F/A-18C, if that is even possible to talk about?

 

Sorry that stuff is too sensitive to talk about.

 

Talking about sensitive information, there is a guy here that works for Lockheed Martin and got pulled up by HR and Ethics officers. I think you will find this story and the comments very funny neofightr, you can read the post here.

 

Sideshow posted some nice OEF deployment photos here, and also a day of an Aviation Machinist same thread, maybe he fixed your aircraft when you broke it lol!

 

Also, it sounds like you never went into the civi airlines etc, not interesting enough for you? Bit to slow paced action perhaps, after a career flying F18s off a carrier.

 

How much of your career was dedicated to being sent out on the boat?

 

Not sure if you have seen Tacview? It's a very good flight data analysis tool for us simmers, that shows everything that happen in the flight in 3D, works for other sims too. It's great at showing me how I was killed:cry:

 

Did they set you up a lot in the sim to be punished? I guess at the start it would be more going over and over emergency procedures, then onto strategic situations later?

 

I know you flew many aircraft on your way to flying the F18. Still, after all this training what was it like to finally get the keys to a 40 million dollar jet! Little nervous...?

 

 

 

.

Edited July 24, 2017 by David OC

[The Black Swan]

I've got some questions regarding countermeasures (whatever you can comment on).

 

I know preemptive flaring is done for infrared missiles. Would you pull back your throttle if there was an incoming missile? Or was keeping your speed of a higher priority?

 

When it comes to chaff, i've seen HUD tapes of Australian hornets where when the other chaffed the lock on for the gun went haywire.

Did you ever try fighting against actual chaffing targets (other than that Egyptian F-16)? If so, was it annoying? Would you just switch to the manual gunsight?

Would chaffing be more effective at long range or closer?

 

So glad to have an actual hornet pilot here!!

[GGTharos]

I know preemptive flaring is done for infrared missiles. Would you pull back your throttle if there was an incoming missile? Or was keeping your speed of a higher priority?

 

You're looking for an answer with a very half-baked question, so the answer is 'it depends'. How many seconds does it take for your exhaust to cool after you pull back the throttle? It is within the missile's TOF? That's just a very basic scenario for your question.

[neofightr]

I've got some questions regarding countermeasures (whatever you can comment on).

 

I know preemptive flaring is done for infrared missiles. Would you pull back your throttle if there was an incoming missile? Or was keeping your speed of a higher priority?

 

When it comes to chaff, i've seen HUD tapes of Australian hornets where when the other chaffed the lock on for the gun went haywire.

Did you ever try fighting against actual chaffing targets (other than that Egyptian F-16)? If so, was it annoying? Would you just switch to the manual gunsight?

Would chaffing be more effective at long range or closer?

 

So glad to have an actual hornet pilot here!!

 

I'm sorry but that stuff is still too sensitive to talk about. You have to remember people make a career out of being on the lookout for tidbits of information that they can piece together.

 

This is why I won't talk about BVR tactics or specifics.

[neofightr]

Talking about sensitive information, there is a guy here that works for Lockheed Martin and got pulled up by HR and Ethics officers. I think you will find this story and the comments very funny neofightr, you can read the post here.

 

Sideshow posted some nice OEF deployment photos here, and also a day of an Aviation Machinist same thread, maybe he fixed your aircraft when you broke it lol!

 

Also, it sounds like you never went into the civi airlines etc, not interesting enough for you? Bit to slow paced action perhaps, after a career flying F18s off a carrier.

 

How much of your career was dedicated to being sent out on the boat?

 

Not sure if you have seen Tacview? It's a very good flight data analysis tool for us simmers, that shows everything that happen in the flight in 3D, works for other sims too. It's great at showing me how I was killed:cry:

 

Did they set you up a lot in the sim to be punished? I guess at the start it would be more going over and over emergency procedures, then onto strategic situations later?

 

I know you flew many aircraft on your way to flying the F18. Still, after all this training what was it like to finally get the keys to a 40 million dollar jet! Little nervous...?

 

 

 

.

 

By the time you are regularly flying Hornets, the navy has pumped millions into your training so the navy will make sure that you are going to the ship as much as possible so that it gets the biggest return on investment.

 

My desire from the start was to save up my pennies so upon retirement I wouldn't have to work any longer :)

 

Never had a desire to fly a bus in the sky. It's a noble profession just not for me.

 

Like I said in my earlier posts, the sheer power and size was impressive those first few flights in the hornet compare to previous planes. It was quite a rush.:pilotfly:

[*Rage*]

Great info neofightr! Just spent the last half hour going through the thread.