Comparing Su-33 to Su-27?

[Belphe]

Hi,

 

I know some of you are already basking in the awesomeness of the upcoming Su-33 PFM. I was wondering how the performance of this magnificent aircraft compared to it's predecessor - the Su-27. Is the magic "S" button still there? Are the super-sharp turns with the brake button pressed equally sharp? Are the extra weight and different wing design pros or cons? Finally, are the canards propelling the fun of flying this bird or rather spoiling it, making it "too stable"?

 

Thanks to all that share their experience!

Edited July 25, 2017 by Belphe

[feefifofum]

I'd personally hold off on the comparisons until the full PFM is released...in fact, I think I will. ;)

[rrohde]

I'd personally hold off on the comparisons until the full PFM is released...in fact, I think I will. ;)

 

+1

[Sweep]

The PFM, while not "released", is available in-game. Look it up on hoggit or something. :thumbup:

 

The jet feels great. I think it'll be more stable in pitch at AOA, likely better in negative PS (i.e. high bleed rate) maneuvering than the Su-27. The -33 has a LOT of lift on it!

 

The ASC Direct Control is still there. The overstress model is there (idk if it's a placeholder or not tho'), the wheel brake pitch/yaw override is there too. Honestly, VERY surprised at the quality of the...NOT-released PFM. Quite excited for proper implementation. :joystick:

 

Carrier landings are very unforgiving now, btw.

 

(OT/PS: The Su-33 is why I'm playing DCS...Found LO/DCS while looking for a Su-33 in "another simulator"...You know, the one with the big jets and stuff. So this PFM is something I'm very much looking forward to flying more often.

[Drona]

I'm holding off flying it for now as well until the PFM is in "released" state. Also, this is the reason I came to Lock-On = for the Su-33 & MiG-29. No other sim at that time had it and still don't :lol: Eagerly awaiting this!

[DarkFire]

...

I think it'll be more stable in pitch at AOA, likely better in negative PS (i.e. high bleed rate) maneuvering than the Su-27. The -33 has a LOT of lift on it!

...

 

This. I'm also waiting for the official release, but the -33 is likely to have better control under high-AOA conditions and exactly as Sweep said, likely better control during edge-of-envelope turning maneuvers. Conversely the -33 is a bit heavier than the -27 so the T:W ration will likely be less favourable at any given weight. I'd expect the -33 to feel significantly more like a truck at high all-up weights but perhaps more nimble at low weight.

[Rider1]

The 33 can carry 4 rocket pods, not just two. This jet is fantastic for air to ground.

[feefifofum]

@Sweep a WIP alpha build of the PFM is available that you have to edit code to enable...I'm not ready to start filing bug reports and making comparisons on a product that's not supposed to even be in our hands yet. ;)

While I agree it's certainly leaps and bounds above the SFM I just think it's premature to have a "serious" discussion about its characteristics...just enjoy the sneak preview and we can all fight about it when it's official. :lol:

[jackmckay]

Su33 AL31F3 combined set has 251kN of static thrust vs 245,2 kN on AL31F integrated on Su27S. In comparison, F15C has 211,4 kN, so yes its the most powerful set of engines in DCS and I hope it will be noticeable on low level mass fraction of fuel on state of T/W ratio over 1.

[Alfa]

Su33 AL31F3 combined set has 251kN of static thrust vs 245,2 kN on AL31F integrated on Su27S. In comparison, F15C has 211,4 kN, so yes its the most powerful set of engines in DCS and I hope it will be noticeable on low level mass fraction of fuel on state of T/W ratio over 1.

 

The thrust figures you quoted are correct, but I am not sure whether the AL-31F on the Su-33 actually has a separate designation. At any rate, it is essentially the same engine as on the Su-27 and has the same standard AFB thrust of 12500 kgf(~245 KN) - the extra thrust comes via a special "over-drive" mode for take-off/emergency situations and is only available for a few minutes at a time.

 

So you cannot make general performance comparisons to the Su-27 and F-15C based on this, whereas - in comparison to the Su-27 - the Su-33 is a great deal heavier, more draggy and has a lower g-rating(8 vs. 9).

 

What you should expect the PFM to reveal however, is that the Su-33 has improved low speed and high AOA handling compared to the Su-27 - i.e. things that were necessary for its carrier application.

[jackmckay]

Could be. All we need to fully compare level flight performance is actual (clean or whatever config) drag force charts for those planes we want to compare. Anyone has one?

[108]

This upgrade to the Su-33? Will it be fully interactive? Or is that still unknown at this point? :huh:

[Northstar98]

This upgrade to the Su-33? Will it be fully interactive? Or is that still unknown at this point? :huh:

 

No just a FM improvement - to put it on par with say the F-15C or Su-27 which both have PFMs

 

That's not to say they would be proper fully interactive modules sometime in the future

[108]

Thanks for that ReconX. Though it is kinda disappointing to me as I would love to see some of the jets in FC3 go full Modules. Do you happen to know if anything has been said to that effect? I'm hopeful for the MiG 29...

[*Rage*]

It was said before (4 years ago?) but I think its very doubtful.

[HiJack]

Thanks for that ReconX. Though it is kinda disappointing to me as I would love to see some of the jets in FC3 go full Modules. Do you happen to know if anything has been said to that effect? I'm hopeful for the MiG 29...

According to Wags Q&A video it's difficult with Russian aircrafts. I guess they classify all their systems as secret, even the old ones.

[Domcho]

Thanks for that ReconX. Though it is kinda disappointing to me as I would love to see some of the jets in FC3 go full Modules. Do you happen to know if anything has been said to that effect? I'm hopeful for the MiG 29...

As far as I know Wags said they will develop the Su-27SM but later on he said the plan for Su-27SM is scrapped in favor of the current Su-27S we have in DCS World.

 

I don't know if it's because of classified stuff and unobtainable information. Maybe they can get the information but considering they're a Russian company, they risk lawsuits and stuff for whatever reason. It feels strange to me how the complicated systems of the Ka-50 were obtained and developed inside DCS in that case. :book:

[108]

:(

[Zyron]

One big thing DCS World is missing is a 4th generation Russian fighter jet with clickable cockpit. It's a little weird that a Russian owned game have more American/European planes than Russian planes, i thought it would be the other way around.

But as stated by Matt Wagner.. Politics.. :(

[Drona]

This thread has gone off into a different tangent. Can the mods create a separate thread from where this thread starts diverging?

 

On that note, I feel ED should look into the possibility of developing a FC3 level modern Russian aircraft if they can't create a DCS level one. I really don't mind if its FC3 level also as long as I get a modern REDFOR aircraft. A MiG-31, Su-35 or MiG-29K anyone?

[Sweep]

This thread has gone off into a different tangent. Can the mods create a separate thread from where this thread starts diverging?

 

On that note, I feel ED should look into the possibility of developing a FC3 level modern Russian aircraft if they can't create a DCS level one. I really don't mind if its FC3 level also as long as I get a modern REDFOR aircraft. A MiG-31, Su-35 or MiG-29K anyone?

 

FC3 level (something? anything? EVERYTHING!) where we can't have proper. Glad I'm not the only one in favor of that!

 

Make Red Air Competitive Again.

[Drona]

Shouldn't it be #MakeRedAirCompetitiveAgain ;)

 

Yes, ED, please look into this possibility!!!