Su-33 Max carrier take off weight?

[Goldsmack]

Re learning the Su-33 with the new flight model, is there a hard number on this somewhere? Hopefully with the update some more reading material will not be far behind because the only "Training" flight/video is very out dated :music_whistling:

[BIGNEWY]

Carrier has two 'short' (105 meter - right deck side and part of left side) and 'long' (195 m, left deck side) runways.

 

Maximal A/C takeoff weight (carrier is not moving, no wind) for 'short' RW at +15C is 27 ton, for 'long' - 32 ton.

[Andrei]

Is there any way to enable the holdback pads? I tried using "U", but it just puts the a/c into position and raises blast deflector, but doesn't activate the pads.

[Goldsmack]

I will add it to my note's, cheers! :thumbup:

[joey45]

Not on the current model.

Edited September 23, 2017 by joey45

[Goldsmack]

Is there any way to enable the holdback pads? I tried using "U", but it just puts the a/c into position and raises blast deflector, but doesn't activate the pads.

Hey I noticed that to!. The only way I was able to take off was to hit U then hold the action "Wheel Break Start" ie not the normal "break", run the engines up to full burner until the plane lurched forward, release said break then engage Emergency War Power. Even with all that it was iffy. Some sort of checklist would be invaluable here, things have changed enough from the old Su-33.

 

Edit: I just now found the (old) Su-33 manual mentioned in another post. Doh! I did not think it had one as it was not in the usual /Eagle Dynamics/Mod/Aircraft/Doc folder.

Edited September 23, 2017 by Goldsmack

[cro_mig_21]

Is there any way to enable the holdback pads? I tried using "U", but it just puts the a/c into position and raises blast deflector, but doesn't activate the pads.

They are enabled automaticly when asking permision to take off

[FSKRipper]

They are enabled automaticly when asking permision to take off

 

Hmmm, not in my version. I also failed to get the blocks working. BTW when pressing U my plane jumps to the right ramp starting position no matter where I was before. Takeoff permission simply get's the blast deflector working but that is also done by the "U" key....

[Alfa]

What I gathered from the russian side of the forum is 27 tons using the short run and 32 from the long one, with no wind and a stationary carrier.

With a 10m/s combined carrier speed and headwind it goes up to 29 and 34.5.

 

The Su-33 has a maximum take-off weight(from the carrier or otherwise) of 33 tons.

 

IIRC the maximum allowed return weight is around 25 tons.

[Alfa]

Is that metric or US? I would assume тонны is metric but google translate isn't the easiest thing to decipher.

 

Metric - 33000 and 25000 kg respectively :)

[Goldsmack]

After some testing that ton must be in US because at 27 Imperial Tons the aircraft weighs 60,480 Lbs and the AI eject and end up in the drink. At 27 Us tons that is 54,000 lbs and the AI can clear the water. With zero head wind and zero carrier speed on the short ramp the max take off weight seems to be around 54,000 lbs = 24ish imperial tons.

 

So yeah I think this is a bug with the new flight model? One post mentioned the Su-33 campaign is unplayable now with carrier takeoffs. Because even with 29knts cruise speed from the Kuznetsov and a 15 knot head wind 54,000 lbs is the MAX take off weight without skimming the water.

Edited September 24, 2017 by Goldsmack

[Andrei]

Hmmm, not in my version. I also failed to get the blocks working. BTW when pressing U my plane jumps to the right ramp starting position no matter where I was before. Takeoff permission simply get's the blast deflector working but that is also done by the "U" key....

 

Indeed. So for now the conclusion is that blocks are not working and we need to use the wheel break (max pressure). It is sufficient to keep the plane stationary at full military power.

[Weta43]

I'm several hundred km from computer, but last time I tried - if you taxi to the correct (short) T/O position, and ask for takeoff permission, the chocks will rise, and the blast shield rise.

If you're too far forward, the chocks will be behind your wheels and do nothing. Similarly if you're off to the side, you'll miss them.

[Kayos]

I'm several hundred km from computer, but last time I tried - if you taxi to the correct (short) T/O position, and ask for takeoff permission, the chocks will rise, and the blast shield rise.

If you're too far forward, the chocks will be behind your wheels and do nothing. Similarly if you're off to the side, you'll miss them.

 

The chocks never rise that i've seen. The blast shield will.

[AJaromir]

Sorry to wake up this topic. Just IMO there is one important thing to fix in the SU-33 manual. Those take-off weights are quite difficult to find in the DCS:SU-27 manual because those are written only in the "SU-33 HISTORY" chapter. It is not possible to find them in any charts in manual or in any guide. BTW the SU-33 manual does not contain any "flight school" chapter which would be important for players those did buy the SU-33 and have no experience how to take-off/land with it from carrier and generally from/to normal airfield e.t.c...

[BBCRF]

3 hours ago, AJaromir said:

Sorry to wake up this topic. Just IMO there is one important thing to fix in the SU-33 manual. Those take-off weights are quite difficult to find in the DCS:SU-27 manual because those are written only in the "SU-33 HISTORY" chapter. It is not possible to find them in any charts in manual or in any guide. BTW the SU-33 manual does not contain any "flight school" chapter which would be important for players those did buy the SU-33 and have no experience how to take-off/land with it from carrier and generally from/to normal airfield e.t.c...

Для Су-33 существуют таблицы взлетных масс в зависимости от температуры и результирующей скорости ветра

[AJaromir]

On 1/3/2021 at 9:05 PM, BBCRF said:

Для Су-33 существуют таблицы взлетных масс в зависимости от температуры и результирующей скорости ветра

Those are not in DCS:SU-33 flight manual. So this info is useless.

Edited January 7, 2021 by AJaromir

[BBCRF]

21 minutes ago, AJaromir said:

В DCS: SU-33 их нет. Так что эта информация бесполезна.

 

и не будет как минимум лет 15

[Ironhand]

1 hour ago, BBCRF said:

и не будет как минимум лет 15

Наверное, так

[Seaeagle]

20 hours ago, AJaromir said:

Those are not in DCS:SU-33 flight manual. So this info is useless.

 

Cannot help you with the deficiencies of the DCS manual.

 

But here are a few figures I remember having seen in RL charts concerning Su-33 maximum take-off weights;

 

- at windspeed of 0 m/s(corresponding to no wind and stationary aircraft carrier);

• short take-off run: not permitted
• long take-off run: 27,5 tons

- at windspeed of 15 m/s(corresponding to no wind but aircraft carrier moving at full flank - 29 knots);

• short take-off run: 30 tons
• long take-off run: 33 tons(max TOW)

Not exactly exhaustive, but the above would constitute worst and best conditions, so I guess you could use those as pointers and adjust your payload for conditions that fall between them.

[AJaromir]

  

2 hours ago, Seaeagle said:

Cannot help you with the deficiencies of the DCS manual.

 

But here are a few figures I remember having seen in RL charts concerning Su-33 maximum take-off weights;

 

- at windspeed of 0 m/s(corresponding to no wind and stationary aircraft carrier);

• short take-off run: not permitted
• long take-off run: 27,5 tons

- at windspeed of 15 m/s(corresponding to no wind but aircraft carrier moving at full flank - 29 knots);

• short take-off run: 30 tons
• long take-off run: 33 tons(max TOW)

Not exactly exhaustive, but the above would constitute worst and best conditions, so I guess you could use those as pointers and adjust your payload for conditions that fall between them.

 

22 hours ago, Ironhand said:

Наверное, так

 

23 hours ago, BBCRF said:

и не будет как минимум лет 15

 

 

Thank You. Yes, I know those values and know where to find them. But in principle, this information should be in the game manual. 15 years ago those values were not needed because SU-33 had SFM. With the SFM it was possible to easily take-off with the impossible loadout.

Edited January 8, 2021 by AJaromir

[Seaeagle]

1 hour ago, AJaromir said:

 Thank You. Yes, I know those values and know where to find them. But in principle, this information should be in the game manual. 15 years ago those values were not needed because SU-33 had SFM. With the SFM it was possible to easily take-off with the impossible loadout.

 

Agree :)

[BBCRF]

1 hour ago, AJaromir said:

  

 

 

 

 

Благодарю вас. Да, я знаю эти ценности и знаю, где их найти. Но в принципе эта информация должна быть в инструкции к игре. 15 лет назад эти значения не были нужны, потому что СУ-33 имел SFM. С SFM можно было легко взлетать с невозможной загрузкой.

 

Эти Таблицы прописаны в РЛЭ, вам ее никто не даст. Инструкция к игре это лишь догадки. Су-33 игровой достаточно далек от Реального самолета

[AJaromir]

5 minutes ago, BBCRF said:

Эти Таблицы прописаны в РЛЭ, вам ее никто не даст. Инструкция к игре это лишь догадки. Су-33 игровой достаточно далек от Реального самолета

 

I don't think so. Why the ED will do the PFM and ASM for Mig-29 then? The SU-33 like other addons got the new PFM with all that gizmo around. ED never do something without relevant and legal data. Also the 3rd pardy developers must send the ED evidence of their flight and systems models and everything must be legal.

Edited January 8, 2021 by AJaromir

[BBCRF]

2 minutes ago, AJaromir said:

 

Я так не думаю. Почему тогда ЭД будет делать ПФМ и АСМ для МиГ-29? СУ-33, как и другие аддоны, получил новый PFM со всей этой штуковиной. ED никогда не делает ничего без соответствующих и юридических данных. Также разработчики 3rd pardy должны прислать ED подтверждение своих моделей полета и систем, и все должно быть законным.

 

По Су-33 им никто ничего не присылал, в игре он просто сделан утяжеленным Су-27. Я знаю Су-33 в реале работал на нем