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Posted (edited)

So after three years of purchase I gave this module a chance and I'm having quite fun with it. But the reasons why I did not fly this bird earlier, state of the module (being bugged) and the constant changes in the FM, have not really changed. Except for the FM now being the same for a longer period of time.

So here is my feedback of what should at least be fixed in order to grant this iconic aircraft of Russian aviation history an appropriate place in DCS.

BTW I fly this module in mp only. Except for testing things in the ME.

 

1. CM do not work anymore if you've died and don't change the slot on respawn or hop to spectator and then to your former slot again.

In addition, the trim and stick positions tend to stay the way they were before your death(or end of mission). This is also observable in SP.

 

2. The state of the main pneumatic system has no effect on the brakes and the hermetic sealing of the canopy. You can drain it to zero and still be able to use both systems just fine.

 

3. The landing lights do not turn off if you retract the LG. They shine through the 3d model. Upon extraction they don't work at all, if you have used them before.

 

4. The Flight Model. I don't have enough knowledge to criticize this in a constructive way, but i did notice that there is no wing rock at or near stall speed, which was part of past versions of the FM and is characteristic for the MiG. And the 2nd reheat is in my opinion too weak, given the fact that the MiG-21bis has a T/W ratio of 1.11 in this stage.(Which is more than a F-16E Block 60 or the same as the F/A-18E)

 

5. Some minor things:

The Volt gauge does not work according to what the manual says.

(It stays the same all the time)

The missile seeker volume rotary switch does not work.

The radar cooling liquid is only replenished if you repair the aircraft.

(If this is a more complex operation than refueling in RL, I'm fine with this)

The RSBN signals are too strong(?) and seem to go through mountains.

Tyres to weak? It is really easy to get them damaged.

 

Altogether these problems would not be a big deal if this was a new module.

But it isn't! The DCS MiG-21bis is now more than 3 years old and some of those issues can be quite annoying. And I am not even going to mention the bugged state of the campaign or any other older single player missions.(Which is a problem of DCS generally.That's a reason why I only play mp)

 

If something mentioned here is rather a result of misunderstanding please do correct me.

 

Nevertheless life is still good and don't take that wrong. wink.gif

Edited by FREEZAH

i7-6700k - Asus Z170 Pro Gaming - 16GB RAM - MSI GTX 960 4GB - be quiet pure power 9 700W - Samsung 32" 1920x1080 - Win 7 - Track IR 5 - Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

Posted

CMs do seem to have a tendency to be affected by the history of the EXE session. I've noticed the RPM also has a history on restart which I assumed was a behavior of the base game but the other ones don't do it. The whole module has quite a few problems with previoussession history.

 

Volt gauge does respond to ground power (being higher than battery). I think under internal generator and ground external AC is about or exactly the same.

 

Not the landing lights but the gear inspection lights. The landing-taxi lights work alright. The gear inspection lights shine downward onto the gear struts and should only be on with the downlocks (no cockpit control). Yes it's known they are 24/7.

 

Missile seeker volume does work.

 

Pneumatic loss will prevent the drag chute. It should prevent normal braking as well. I think the canopy seal they have modeled as engine bleed air instead of stored pressure.

 

FM is really lacking the poor stability in roll and yaw at slow and Mach speeds respectively. Generally a departure should happen in roll before pitch at high AOA. A straight ahead 25 degree AOA departure isn't realistic.

 

RSBN will continue to provide updated position even without a radio signal to the station. The real system can be used to navigation without any station at all (with drift and errors which can be manually corrected over time). RSBN-PRMG in general could be a lot better (see L-39).

 

Tyres have a pretty low speed limit but I find that a gentle takeoff (hovering near 0m/s for a while) is harder on the tyres than a faster takeoff with an aggressive liftoff. Basically go faster and make a clean liftoff and the tyres will survive more. Also don't spare the throttle, dry takeoffs shred tyres.

 

The service fluids and gasses (and brake chute) should be replenished on rearm or repair. I don't think they are for refuel. Certain things are tied to certain services.

Posted (edited)

Thank you for the clarification, Frederf! Much appreciated.

 

I just did some tests in the single player and...

 

You are right, the Voltmeter does work!

It jumps from about 24 to 28V as soon as the rpm needles start to move,

if the DC-GEn switch is in the up position.

It also shows the same behavior if ground power is enabled.

Didn't expect this to happen that quick.

I tested it initially with the AC-Gen turning on and off, so that's why I thought it wasn't working properly.

 

You are also right about the landing and taxi lights, they work fine. I guess I didn't retract them <700IAS km/h.

 

And the missile seeker rotary switch does work too...(It's just so quiet)

 

 

"The aircraft pneumatic system is composed of two individual systems, i. e. the main and emergency ones.

The main system is designed for:

Braking the landing gear wheels

Jettisoning the JATO units

Sealing the cabin canopy

Controlling the drag chute nacelle doors

Jettisoning the drag chute

Controlling the anti-icing system, liquid cooling system and pressurizing the radar units.(...)"

 

That is what the RL-manual says about the main pneumatic system.(http://www.avialogs.com/viewer/avialogs-documentviewer.php?id=15621)

Which looks like their source for the DCS-manual.

(that is not very satisfying in terms of the amount of information given and readability, compared to the manuals of ED)

 

 

"Note: Whenever you fly, your aircraft resources will

be slowly consumed (fluids, working resources,

stress applied etc). Once you land and require

refueling, the systems will “self repair” after the

refueling is done. You might notice this when your

canopy opens (if it was closed), some switches

flipping back into the OFF position and aircraft

fluids recovering to normal values. Watch the

compressed air manometer (RH61), pilot’s oxygen

(LV39) and engine oxygen (LV2) indicators to assess

whether your systems are repaired.

Note: Internal systems “self repair” is coupled with

refueling. However, to make repairs of damaged

hardware (fuselage, wings, tail, gears) you need to

call the ground crew and ask for repairs. The same

applies for rearming."

 

From the DCS-MiG21bis manual.

 

Thanks for your advice regarding the T/O.

It does work alot better that way.

 

Edit: After the tests using ME, I joined a multiplayer server and wasn't able to use CMs.

I had to restart DCS, because changing the slot did not help.

So I guess, your assumption is right.

 

I also noticed that sealing the canopy does lower the amount of compressed air.

The needle moves very slightly to the left.

Edited by FREEZAH

i7-6700k - Asus Z170 Pro Gaming - 16GB RAM - MSI GTX 960 4GB - be quiet pure power 9 700W - Samsung 32" 1920x1080 - Win 7 - Track IR 5 - Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

Posted

O man, I just had a look at their bugtracker and the russian part of this forum...

 

Never mind this thread.

i7-6700k - Asus Z170 Pro Gaming - 16GB RAM - MSI GTX 960 4GB - be quiet pure power 9 700W - Samsung 32" 1920x1080 - Win 7 - Track IR 5 - Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

Posted (edited)

4. The Flight Model.

 

This is getting more and more common (obviously) with each new module.

Started with hog and flew for 2 years, switched to Mig but stopped b/c FM. Got Mirage, stopped b/c FM. Got super excited for Viggen and guess what, stopped b/c FM.

So probably not getting Harrier or F-14 until a good FM update. Hawg is still up to spec as far as I know so might get Hornet. Obviously FM and realism is my pet-peeve but all this accuracy is what (in my mind) separates this from every other space-game or whathaveyou and makes it worth while to learn.

Sorry, Off topic maybe. Haven't flown them in a while so might be wrong of course.

Edited by SpeedStick

"Hard to imagine bigger engine. its got a beautiful face and an arse built like sputnik." - Pikey AKA The Poet, on 37 Viggen.

  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
I think this one is a lost cause boys. The module is in disrepair on 2.0, especially with deferred shading on.

 

If we don't complain nothing will get done.

 

 

 

The external model also misses lots of parts, when you are inside the cockpit. This is not usually a problem but with VR you can actually look outside the cockpit and seeing the missing fuselage and stuff looks bad.

Posted (edited)

For the RSBN system, I think it could benefit with being unified with the RSBN now added to DCS thanks to the L-39 (before RSBN didn't exist, so what was then LNS made an independent navigation system for it, but now it's implemented in DCS properly it has led to discrepancies between the L-39 and the MiG-21Bis.

Edited by Northstar98

Modules I own: F-14A/B, F-4E, Mi-24P, AJS 37, AV-8B N/A, F-5E-3, MiG-21bis, F-16CM, F/A-18C, Supercarrier, Mi-8MTV2, UH-1H, Mirage 2000C, FC3, MiG-15bis, Ka-50, A-10C (+ A-10C II), P-47D, P-51D, C-101, Yak-52, WWII Assets, CA, NS430, Hawk.

Terrains I own: South Atlantic, Syria, The Channel, SoH/PG, Marianas.

System:

GIGABYTE B650 AORUS ELITE AX, AMD Ryzen 5 7600, Corsair Vengeance DDR5-5200 32 GB, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4070S FE, Western Digital Black SN850X 1 TB (DCS dedicated) & 2 TB NVMe SSDs, Corsair RM850X 850 W, NZXT H7 Flow, MSI G274CV.

Peripherals: VKB Gunfighter Mk.II w. MCG Pro, MFG Crosswind V3 Graphite, Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

Posted

I hope there is provision for cross-utilizing technologies from one module to the other. Repeating coding is ineffecient. DCS modules are more likely to be cooperative with each other than competitive.

Posted

Yes a lot of us b*tched about it so...

I also wrote a post in that thread describing my excitement.

"Hard to imagine bigger engine. its got a beautiful face and an arse built like sputnik." - Pikey AKA The Poet, on 37 Viggen.

Posted

I hate the dirty canopy. It makes harder to spot bandit visually. Can we ask our ground crew to clean it up ?

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

Posted

The MIG-21 is a very controversial module. It's one of the best in some ways, yet it has some major bugs that are left unattended in their bugtracker. Certainly not good for their reputation.

 

In 2.1 I can at least fire my missiles which wasn't the case in 1.5 sometimes. CM works most of the time, if I flip the rocket booster switches on.

 

The blown tyres are very strange, but if you trim the nose up for takeoff they won't blow...weird.

 

The canopy is not really transparent, just opaque, like on a MIG-21 that has been in an outdoor museum for the last 20 years.

 

Also, when you park close to another MIG, your FPS drops drastically.

 

The FM...I've never flown anything close to a MIG-21, the only thing I find strange is the pitch instability. Then again, it might as well be accurate.

Posted (edited)
The MIG-21 is a very controversial module. It's one of the best in some ways, yet it has some major bugs that are left unattended in their bugtracker. Certainly not good for their reputation. .

It is not only hurting their reputation, but ED's as well.

Because they cannot establish a certain quality of the modules offered for DCS World.

I own the A10C, FC3 and the MiG.

And the most fun I got was with the first two.

The A10 was my introduction into flight sims and Fc3 into DCS multiplayer.

 

I bought the MiG, because I didn't know at that time the differences

between the modules of ED and those of the 3rd parties.

As I started then to read in the forums and learned about the experiences

of other players who purchased various modules,

I hadn't much the need to buy anything else than what I already have got.

The lack of good SP content only strengthened this.

 

Although I know there are some good SP campaigns like Operation Piercing Fury

or Operation Bactria, and the modules of ED and Belsimtek are probably the best

you can get in this game(and in mil sim generally), it left a stale taste,

knowing the shortcomings and the unrealized potential this sandbox has.

 

The only thing that kept me so far in DCS was and still is the multiplayer community.

But it is sad to see that since the beginning of DCS World the core mechanics haven't changed.

People who run servers like the 104th or Open Conflict put a lot of afford and time in this,

and have to deal with the same problems again and again.

It takes a long time until bugs are addressed and fixed,

(like the recent one where multiplayer was almost unplayable).

 

What I am trying to say is that their priorities aren't really user oriented.

Their need to push everything out to early access just amplifies this impression.

It always reminds me kind of a snowball system.

(I am exaggerating here just to express my frustration.)

 

IMO without the online community they would observe a significant decrease in overall sales.

And if that assumption is false and most of the players are SP based,

why then allowing such unfinished, bugged and not accurate

(to certain degree) modules like the Hawk, C-101, the MiG, M2K?

(Just to name the few I am certain of)

 

When I opened this thread, I played the MiG for two months.

I am done now with it. It was fun at the beginning and

I had good times on the Cold WAR server of ACG.

But that's it.

That is imo really poor for a 'simulation'.

 

I have spent almost the same amount of time on another simulation

which was produced twenty years ago and afterwards modded by a dedicated community,

and which only has one really fleshed out aircraft,

as I did spend on DCS generally.

I guess I am not quite the target customer,

if I expect an accurate simulation of the aircraft and the environment it is operated in

(cough... ATC,weather,missile behavior,A.I.,AWACS,SAM behavior...,... cough).

 

However I am still excited about the new Caucasus and the F18.

But it will take a long time until I'll buy the latter.

Probably not for the full price.

And I am repeatedly amazed how good this sim can look.

And that's the point.

The look seems to be more realistic than the actual simulation.(Again exaggerating)

 

Nevertheless I am still positive about the future of DCS and that eventually things will get done the right way.

 

And hopefully some day we will have a MiG-21bis with which the most of us will be satisfied.

Edited by FREEZAH
  • Like 1

i7-6700k - Asus Z170 Pro Gaming - 16GB RAM - MSI GTX 960 4GB - be quiet pure power 9 700W - Samsung 32" 1920x1080 - Win 7 - Track IR 5 - Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS

Posted

And hopefully some day we will have a MiG-21bis with which the most of us will be satisfied.

This will never happened. I have been here a long time and one thing I learn, no matter what someone will find something to complain about, no matter what. From being to accurate to not being accurate enough. From being to easy to not easy enough and so on and so on.

To whom it may concern,

I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that.

Thank you for you patience.

 

 

Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true..

Posted

He is saying most of us not all... If most of us are satisfied with the a-10c for example, I don't see why the same can't achieved for MiG-21.

 

Sent from my Redmi 4 using Tapatalk

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Posted
I have spent almost the same amount of time on another simulation

which was produced twenty years ago and afterwards modded by a dedicated community,

and which only has one really fleshed out aircraft,

as I did spend on DCS generally.

 

I've recently reinstalled that another simulation too :D, I miss VR, but it feels so good to play in a feature balanced and fleshed out simulation :wub:

I'll buy :

МиГ-23МЛД & МЛА МиГ-27К МиГ-25 Mirage III F-4E any IJ plane 1950' Korea Dynamic campaign module

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