CH Fighter HOTAS

[Fri13]

I found now to personally need a one extra set more that should be affordable, but compact+light and decided to skip the TM.160000 if possible and now eyeing the CH Fighter Stick + Throttle combo.

 

But what is causing me little doubts is that do I find myself too much missing about dual-axis throttle, and is there any other 4/8 way hat with push function as well? As far I found out, only the mini-joystick in throttle supports press?

 

So far I haven't really used two-axis throttles much as I have found many of them to be out of sync quickly even after calibration at start, and anyways usually using a both engines same time and in emergency situation shut down the other engine (on fire etc) so I didn't think I would have missed that, but Harrier module changed now that as the dual-axis throttle "is a must" as far I see it. So single mono-throttle grip now feels "lack of capability".

 

I have heard many good things about CH HOTAS quality, even when using the legacy 255 stepping pot, by their accuracy and durability. But did just a quick review searching (and amazed how few there really were in video format!?) and it raised more doubts in me than help.

 

Especially one like this:

 

 

I found as well one saying they got fix by using a powered USB HUB and then calibrating the HOTAS every time they reboot computer, and it feels again not match the requirement when need to remove the HOTAS often for various reasons.

 

So can someone still recommend the CH HOTAS, or has the time just passed seriously it in the era of Virpil and VKB?

(As already a TH Warthog HOTAS feels seriously outdated compared to their offerings.

 

My main problem with those two is still the lack of throttle with enough buttons, axis, switches, knobs etc (that at least Virpil is saying to be come out with their throttle) that you can get right now. What is as well one reason to get CH for a short while (at least for less than a year really)).

[Mr_sukebe]

I've been using a CH Fighterstick and Throttle for over 2 years now.

The fighterstick has been perfect, and actually feels like it did when new.

My throttle experienced a "jitter" issue on the throttle itself. Turns out this is not uncommon and there's a very easy fix for it. (open the base, bend 3 pins a little, tape a cable, replace the base. 5 min job). Otherwise, it's been spot on.

 

For the price, great bit of kit that looks like it'll last for years.

For all that, I'm now looking at a Virpil pairing, but would still keep the CH combo as a perfectly good backup.

 

Never had an issue with losing all the settings, though I'd recommend against using the CH software. Windows 10 works fine with them directly.

Have had them go "missing", but that was my Rift headset sucking all the juice from my USB hub. Introduced a powered USB hub, and that's fixed it completely.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Mr_sukebe

[ebabil]

my throttle jitters since it was bought. i am thinking of buying upcoming ckb throttle

[Emmy]

I've been using a CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals for many years and been very happy with them all. I don't get all the bells and whistles of the TM Warthog and I have to to do a little creative thinking for HOTAS programming, but I can effectively fight in the A-10C, Eagle, F-5 and now the Harrier (the residual throttle wheel on the Fighterstick is perfect for Harrier nozzles!)

 

Probably due to shear age, I do have to incorporate dead bands on the stick and pedals due to a slight jitter around the center of their respective axis, but it's not enough to make me replace them (yet)

 

I do all my programming just in DCS and not via the CH software.

 

Only glitch is that I have to un-plug and re-plug in all three after my Win 10 64 system boots. Otherwise, the computer doesn't see them. I have no idea why.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Emmy

[TrigaNZ]

My throttle experienced a "jitter" issue on the throttle itself. Turns out this is not uncommon and there's a very easy fix for it. (open the base, bend 3 pins a little, tape a cable, replace the base. 5 min job)

 

What do you mean by tape a cable?

[grunf]

I have CH throttle for two years or so, the throttle axis was very jittery from day one. Bending the pins helped a lot, but it was never perfect. Other two axes, the mini joystick, also jitter a bit and sometimes don't recenter.

 

There are plenty of buttons, no issues with any of them so far.

 

Because of the issues with the axes, I would not recommend it.

[Mr_sukebe]

What do you mean by tape a cable?

 

If you open the Throttle up, you'll find that it's kept in place by a sled and then attached to a potentiometer (POT). The POT has a 3 pin connector attached (IIRC) and that wire runs off to the circuit board. For me, jitter was being caused by movement of that cable, as the sled can shuffle it around.

My solution was to:

- Slightly bend the 3 pins connecting the POT to the cable, to give more clearance from the sled

- To tape the wire in place, so ensure no movement

As mentioned, I found this to be a VERY easy fix.

 

Since then, zero jitter issues with the throttle.

[Sokol1_br]

I have heard many good things about CH HOTAS quality, even when using the legacy 255 stepping pot, by their accuracy and durability.

 

Overall CH had the best constructive quality of domestic joysticks between traditional brands.

 

The pot' is not 255 "steeps" (8 bits), pot has - theoretical - infinite resolution, the Achilles Heel of CH is their 8 bits USB controller, the same since 1999/2000.

 

But did just a quick review searching (and amazed how few there really were in video format!?) and it raised more doubts in me than help.

 

Especially one like this:

 

 

Press (with pliers) the wire tabs over pot pins can cure/minimize spikes.

 

...and is there any other 4/8 way hat with push function as well? As far I found out, only the mini-joystick in throttle supports press?

 

On throttle grip are:3 press buttons under pinky, ring and middle fingers and a 4 way HAT under index.

 

A mini-stick with button press plus 2x 4 way HAT and 1x 8 way POV HAT under thumb finger.

 

One of the press buttons can be used as mode selector and alternate between 3 modes - with color LED indication.

 

So, ~19 physical buttons + 38 virtual.

Edited December 18, 2017 by Sokol1_br

[lasvideo]

I use the CH Fighterstick/Pro Throttle/Pedal with DCS and love how they perform. I highly recommend them for reliability and longevity of use.

[Fri13]

I've been using a CH Fighterstick, Pro Throttle and Pro Pedals for many years and been very happy with them all. I don't get all the bells and whistles of the TM Warthog and I have to to do a little creative thinking for HOTAS programming, but I can effectively fight in the A-10C, Eagle, F-5 and now the Harrier (the residual throttle wheel on the Fighterstick is perfect for Harrier nozzles!)

 

Well I can see that the CH HOTAS has plenty of the functions and especially 4-way hats, and that ain't problem with creative multipliers as I already considered the three buttons in throttle grip to be my multipliers, as anyways I would require to do that regardless what HOTAS I would use. But more I can get in logical combos then better. One thing that I am going to miss is the 8 button layout from G940 throttle as those has been amazingly great with multipliers as you get nice 2x4 layout that the Virpil throttle has as well.

 

 

Probably due to shear age, I do have to incorporate dead bands on the stick and pedals due to a slight jitter around the center of their respective axis, but it's not enough to make me replace them (yet)

 

I do all my programming just in DCS and not via the CH software.

 

I am planning to avoid any third party binding software outside of the DCS. But that might be so because I mainly use just DCS flight so its flexible binding capability makes all the difference to others.

 

Only glitch is that I have to un-plug and re-plug in all three after my Win 10 64 system boots. Otherwise, the computer doesn't see them. I have no idea why.

 

Does that require after waking from sleep, or just from reboot?

[Bigfoot15x2]

I have a full CH controller setup and the mini-stick on the throttle works great for slewing the TGP or any type of cursor. I don't use the CH software and just assign the axis in DCS. Just add a dead zone of about 20 to the mini-stick so it stops any minor jitter. I calibrated mine about eight months ago when I got them and haven't had to recalibrate yet. Nice products for the price too. I would highly recommend them.

[Fri13]

I have CH throttle for two years or so, the throttle axis was very jittery from day one. Bending the pins helped a lot, but it was never perfect. Other two axes, the mini joystick, also jitter a bit and sometimes don't recenter.

 

There are plenty of buttons, no issues with any of them so far.

 

Because of the issues with the axes, I would not recommend it.

 

That is the worrying information...

 

As in that review video about the axis jitter being fairly radical, it is not nice if you need to fight against the controller.

 

But it is only if it becomes a problem. Like currently the G940 I personally use has been jitter free etc (did the modification at the first week to extend the throttle cable inside and so it doesn't move) but the hysteresis in throttle (regardless just 0.15%) is now noticeable with the Harrier as the left throttle for nozzles is difficult to use when trying to get back to vertical 81 degree after going to 82-83 degree means that you jump to 78-79 degree with slight reverse and then need to try get back to 81 and it jumps over so radical move is required.

[Fri13]

Overall CH had the best constructive quality of domestic joysticks between traditional brands.

 

The pot' is not 255 "steeps" (8 bits), pot has - theoretical - infinite resolution, the Achilles Heel of CH is their 8 bits USB controller, the same since 1999/2000.

 

They must have warehouse full of those controllers then :D

 

Press (with pliers) the wire tabs over pot pins can cure/minimize spikes.

 

Sounds like many recommends a opening and fixing something before taking in use :)

 

On throttle grip are:3 press buttons under pinky, ring and middle fingers and a 4 way HAT under index.

 

A mini-stick with button press plus 2x 4 way HAT and 1x 8 way POV HAT under thumb finger.

 

One of the press buttons can be used as mode selector and alternate between 3 modes - with color LED indication.

 

So, ~19 physical buttons + 38 virtual.

 

Okay so only the mini-joystick is with press button.

 

How about the missing "second throttle"?

[Fri13]

I have a full CH controller setup and the mini-stick on the throttle works great for slewing the TGP or any type of cursor. I don't use the CH software and just assign the axis in DCS. Just add a dead zone of about 20 to the mini-stick so it stops any minor jitter. I calibrated mine about eight months ago when I got them and haven't had to recalibrate yet. Nice products for the price too. I would highly recommend them.

 

Good reminder for dead zone. Do you have any curves set to the mini-joystick or does it operate nicely (good throw etc?) with TGP and so on?

 

Do you miss the second throttle?

[Fri13]

If you open the Throttle up, you'll find that it's kept in place by a sled and then attached to a potentiometer (POT). The POT has a 3 pin connector attached (IIRC) and that wire runs off to the circuit board. For me, jitter was being caused by movement of that cable, as the sled can shuffle it around.

 

My solution was to:

- Slightly bend the 3 pins connecting the POT to the cable, to give more clearance from the sled

- To tape the wire in place, so ensure no movement

As mentioned, I found this to be a VERY easy fix.

 

Since then, zero jitter issues with the throttle.

 

Does the taping help for any jitter in in mini-joystick?

as that modification sounds really simple fix if not using just a software deadzone...

[Mars Exulte]

Ergonomics is very important in a flight sim HOTAS, imo. CH is loosely modeled on a real aircraft control and has most of the right buttons in most the places you'd want them.

 

If I had to go back and buy everything again, I'd have bought it instead of the Saitek stuff. It's more utilitarian and functional, with less "jazz" and showy stuff, better build quality, too. Imo, it's the better "entry level HOTAS" when compared to the TM16000M and Saitek X52/55/56.

[Mr_sukebe]

Does the taping help for any jitter in in mini-joystick?

as that modification sounds really simple fix if not using just a software deadzone...

 

I use a "deadzone" to resolve the jitter on the mini-joystick. Never really bothered me.

The throttle jitter really did annoy me and most definitely required a fix. As you've noted, it was VERY easy.

So whilst I've experienced some issues, I'd still happily pick it over any Saitek or Thrustmaster gear, primarily on the grounds of reliability.

 

Note that more recently I bought a VKB rip-off, called a Speedlink Airrow. Basically a non-pro Gladiator, with 16 bit MARS sensors. I know that people rave about MARS sensors, but for me, I didn't find the accuracy of any notable difference. That's back in it's box and will be given to my son.

[Sokol1_br]

Okay so only the mini-joystick is with press button.

 

How about the missing "second throttle"?

 

Yes, the others HAT don't has center press button.

 

Well, no solution for 2nd throttle unless buy from anther brand and bellow Warthog price the only dual throttles are X-55/6 from Saitek... :P

 

Better await VirPil define the price or their dual throttle - beware that first model don't come with mini-stick (unless they change their plans).

[Fri13]

Logitech (Saitek) is the last thing I want to buy :D

Even if it would be just for HOTAS that gets a use few times a year....

 

The thrustmaster is little here and there about but... Only really because the dual throttle.

 

Has anyone configured the CH throttle so that normally it is both engines, but then with multipliers you can adjust either one separately?

 

As someone mentioned the Harrier nozzle leveler being the stick trim wheel, but for me that is little off as it requires me to either take off hand from the tick or throttle to do so.

And as Harrier requires to do the double adjustments, both same time or very soon after each others, it feels as idea so bad to move a left hand from left side to the right side to make a small wheel adjustment and then back to throttle.

I am little thinking to bind the nozzle leveler behind multiplier for throttle for that but it means that both gets re-adjusted continually if swapping from a another, and not really "working".

 

But it really is a problem only with the Harrier as far I can now imagine as I don't do any fancy acrobatics with Su-27 or so where one engine management over both is beneficial.

One of the flaws (or benefits) of the CH stick is its large throw. Meaning it is very accurate (right?) as is but you can't make any extension for it as you are waving the stick even more around..... That is one nice thing with sticks with tiny throw that the extension makes it anyways more accurate to operate.

 

In that position it is shown that the trim wheels are not a alternative pots, but just off-set the axis pot itself.

 

So does that really mean what I think it means, that you don't need any trimming function to be binded anywhere as the trimming in stick base is same as moving the stick? If you want to use those...

 

As I can see a two setups where one is that you set the bindings in DCS for trimming and get the cockpit lights etc operate correctly. Or you use the stick own trimming wheels that DCS doesn't recognize but sees as stick would be moved, and to reset trim you need to reset the trim wheels?

 

And in either way, if you accidentally move trim wheels, you change the stick measured throw value?

Edited December 18, 2017 by Fri13

[Emmy]

Not the Stick Trim for Nozzle...

 

The "throttle wheel" to the left of the stick. I can easily manipulate it with my right thumb without taking either hand off anything.

[sea2sky]

Think twice before getting it. I had to spend some time on repairing my X-55 throttle (replaced wiring), and got a brand new CH Products Pro-throttle as a temporarily solution. The main big issue with this device is a loose handle. Man, I could not believe how loose it is, zero resistance. You just angle the throttle body and handle moves on its own making a terrible noise of plastic sliding against plastic. So, the first thing I had to do (and I suggest you be ready for that as well) - I've modded it to add some resistance. Also, used silicone lube to add a bit of smoothness to its movements. The next not so bad but still an issue is a feel of its plastic. X-55's is made of plastic too, but it is a very different one and feels differently. CH handle feels just like a cheap toy.

 

On a positive side - I find the amount of buttons to be quite sufficient, they comfortably placed as well. Also, I've read the quality of the buttons is very good = long lasting.

[Bigfoot15x2]

Good reminder for dead zone. Do you have any curves set to the mini-joystick or does it operate nicely (good throw etc?) with TGP and so on?

 

I just checked my axis tune on the A-10C and Viggen for the mini-stick and all I have set is the deadzone of 20 with default curve and saturation. The Ka-50 though was really a fast slew with the mini-stick (I think its related to just that module because the others are fine). I tired some various saturations and curves but could never find the right mix of quick but fine tuned so I use the mini-stick for a faster slew and then mapped the keyboard slew commands for a fine tuned approach.

[Sideslip]

...You just angle the throttle body and handle moves on its own making a terrible noise of plastic sliding against plastic...

 

Man I tell you whoever designed the devices at CH must have had a hard on for sliding plastic. The CH rudder pedals are atrociously loud garbage. The best sound they ever made was the thud of them hitting the bottom of the garbage bin.

 

I will never, ever recommend a CH product to anybody. They just don't care about their products.

[Sokol1_br]

[quote=Fri13;3329491

One of the flaws (or benefits) of the CH stick is its large throw. Meaning it is very accurate (right?) as is but you can't make any extension for it as you are waving the stick even more around..... That is one nice thing with sticks with tiny throw that the extension makes it anyways more accurate to operate.

 

CH stick move ~30 + 30 degrees for each side, other brands joysticks is around ~20 + 20.

 

In that position it is shown that the trim wheels are not a alternative pots, but just off-set the axis pot itself.

 

This "trim wheels" on CH stick are legacy of DOS era when are used for calibration purpose - as their controllers design/project are from same era :D - why you don't see then in other brands controllers.

 

In SimHQ the former CH guru (now retired) Bob Church advised don't use then in modern games since what they do is change the pot' center position meaning that you have less control in left side and more in right and at same time change the joystick calibration in Windows. :joystick:

Edited December 19, 2017 by Sokol1_br

[Sokol1_br]

Has anyone configured the CH throttle so that normally it is both engines, but then with multipliers you can adjust either one separately?

 

Theoretically you can use one throttle axis for control 2 engines individually using "modifiers" - DCS controls allow you add buttons or keys as modifiers for other buttons, keys and axes.

 

But in practice this is awkward to use because you need memorize throttle position when decide change the adjust for engine 2 pressing their respective "modifier", because if after do this adjust you don't move the throttle back for their previous position when press the "modifier" for engine 1 their adjust will jump for the new position in what throttle remains after adjust engine 2.