2.5 Video Settings - VR Quality/Performance Balance

[dburne]

Well shadows in VR are kind of a case of what I've never had I'll never miss. If I put them on I might start wishing I have them! I'm thoroughly sick of tinkering!

 

It might sound bizarre but I just don't think about shadows when I am flying! Mainly I like the game to look tidy, with at least 2x MSSA on Caucasus and 4x in Vegas. Kind of wish we could see different graphics profiles, but to be honest as I am using re-projection and fly helicopters mostly (and turn of shadows and lower visibility) on my system I can afford 4x.

 

I really do hope there will be big improvements for release though, but with the amount of problems that presently exist, they are going to be very busy!

 

Agreed, I put shadows on both terrain and cockpit and man they do look good, but absolutely kills performance for me in VR.

 

I will live without them for now, maybe a new rig which I may be doing soon will help some.

[StrongHarm]

dburne, did you lower PD to 1.2 when you turned shadows on and you still had issues? You have the same video card that I have and it seems to perform very well on my system. I've also found that turning Preload Radius down helps in 2.5.. I think there's a problem with it. I've been hovering between 0 and 30k PR, and 2x and 8x AF. The best balance I've found is with the settings list in OP:

 

VR PD = 1.2

MSAA = 2x

Anisotropic Filtering = 2x

Deferred Shading = ON

Terrain Shadows = FLAT

Cockpit Global Illumination = ON

[dburne]

dburne, did you lower PD to 1.2 when you turned shadows on and you still had issues? You have the same video card that I have and it seems to perform very well on my system. I've also found that turning Preload Radius down helps in 2.5.. I think there's a problem with it. I've been hovering between 0 and 30k PR, and 2x and 8x AF. The best balance I've found is with the settings list in OP:

 

VR PD = 1.2

MSAA = 2x

Anisotropic Filtering = 2x

Deferred Shading = ON

Terrain Shadows = FLAT

Cockpit Global Illumination = ON

 

Yes I am running PD of 1.0

I tried lowering preload radius and it did not seem to have an effect.

 

I can run with shadows, but can only maintain 45 fps over Normandy. Without I can get higher.

[hansangb]

Flat shadows, or "full" shadows?

[dburne]

Flat shadows, or "full" shadows?

 

I tried both.

[StrongHarm]

Yes I am running PD of 1.0

I tried lowering preload radius and it did not seem to have an effect.

 

I can run with shadows, but can only maintain 45 fps over Normandy. Without I can get higher.

 

dburne, forgive me if I'm telling you something that you already know: 45 fps should be considered acceptable at this point in time. With VR's Asynchronous Spacewarp(ASW) you'll typically see 90 FPS, 45 FPS, or a value between 1-44. The reason you see your FPS lock at 45 FPS is because your actual available FPS is higher than 45, but doesn't reach 90. This could mean that your FPS is 87, but ASW is forcing 45 FPS. Locking the frames to 45 instead of allowing a fluctuation between 45 and 90 prevents undesirable effects of VR such as edge tearing and motion sickness.

 

Outside of VR, 45 FPS is not very good. We've been conditioned as gamers to accept nothing less than 60 FPS. With a monitor 60 FPS is good, but 120 FPS is amazing. VR is different; in VR 45 is good but 90 is amazing. My goal with a quality/performance balance is to have a stable 45 FPS and not see it drop to 40. 90, of course would be better, but almost all visual quality has to be compromised to achieve that. A solid 90 FPS may be a reasonable goal in DCS in the future but as of right now, no matter how powerful your computer is, a solid 45 FPS is really good.

 

https://developer.oculus.com/blog/asynchronous-spacewarp/

[Buckeye]

Has anyone extensively tested 2x MSAA vs 4x MSAA and can comment on how much improvement they noticed in visual quality?

 

I have moved from 1.5 PD + 2x MSAA to 1.3PD with 4x MSAA, and performance delta was about a wash. I honestly can't discern which looks better/more clear in the cockpit (regarding text legibility, etc). That said, on the 104th server with heavy loads from units, etc I see drops into the 20-30's quite a bite more than I would like.

 

Considering dropping to 2x MSAA at 1.3 PD after work today, just wondering if the visual quality of the spread between 2x and 4x MSAA is huge?

[Wolf8312]

Has anyone extensively tested 2x MSAA vs 4x MSAA and can comment on how much improvement they noticed in visual quality?

 

I have moved from 1.5 PD + 2x MSAA to 1.3PD with 4x MSAA, and performance delta was about a wash. I honestly can't discern which looks better/more clear in the cockpit (regarding text legibility, etc). That said, on the 104th server with heavy loads from units, etc I see drops into the 20-30's quite a bite more than I would like.

 

Considering dropping to 2x MSAA at 1.3 PD after work today, just wondering if the visual quality of the spread between 2x and 4x MSAA is huge?

 

 

To be honest in this build 2x/4x is only really noticeable over Vegas and even then doesn't seem to matter as much as it used to, but this may just be the result of my getting accustomed to a lower PD.

 

Basically 2x doesn't seem much worse than 4, but also 4x doesn't seem that much better than 2x either. But neither are bad to a distracting degree and especially not away from Vegas.

 

Performance also doesn't seem all that different either to be honest but I don't have any numbers for you. 4 does look better though at least in my tinker-addled probably by now delusional brain!

 

Doesn't matter either way though cause I keep reminding myself how much better the game looks now I am able to enable deferred shading! Any time I start thinking how I want this or that or more of this or less of that, I remind myself how fantastic this sim looks now. Helicoptering into the dust cloud you've just created never gets old!

 

The biggest problem for me is the lighting. I can only really fly at certain times of the day and not at all at night! I also seem to have to delete the fxo and metashaders folders periodically now, so I think there's definitely issues! It's certainly not a polished experience but hey Beta and all that!

 

My advice decide on your settings and stick with them! Just have fun!

 

I think if you play MP with lots of other players, until the game is better optimized (and I think certain modules are improved) you're going to have problems.

[StrongHarm]

Buckeye, I have a monster system which is meticulously maintained (see OP for specs, 25yrs in tech). I spent two 8hr days trying every reasonable combination of PD MSAA settings.

The short answer to your question is this:

- 1.2PD and 2xMSAA is 8 quality 8 performance

- 1.2PD and 4xMSAA is 8+ quality 4 performance

 

According to my personal test results, going over 2xMSAA in VR creates too significant a performance drop to be viable. 1.2PD 2xMSAA was the sweet spot for my system, achieving 8 quality 8 performance.

 

You'll notice that the quality/performance variations are not at all linear or logical.

Here's the full analytical breakdown:

 

[TABLE]

__PD__

|

_MSAA_

|

_Quality_

|Performance

1|

0

|

0

|

10

1.2

|

0

|

2

|

10

1.4

|

0

|

4

|

10

1.6

|

0

|

4

|

10

1.8

|

0

|

4

|

8

2.0

|

0

|

6

|

6

1

|

2

|

6

|

10

1.2

|

2

|

8

|

8

1.4

|

2

|

8

|

6

1.6

|

2

|

10

|

4

1.8

|

2

|

10

|

2

2.0

|

2

|

10

|

2

1

|

4

|

8

|

4

1.2

|

4

|

8

|

4

1.4

|

4

|

8

|

2

1.6

|

4

|

10

|

0

1.8

|

4

|

10

|

0

2.0

|

4

|

10

|

0

1

|

8

|

8

|

2

1.2+

|

8

|

10

|

0

[/TABLE]

Edited February 8, 2018 by StrongHarm

[dburne]

dburne, forgive me if I'm telling you something that you already know: 45 fps should be considered acceptable at this point in time. With VR's Asynchronous Spacewarp(ASW) you'll typically see 90 FPS, 45 FPS, or a value between 1-44. The reason you see your FPS lock at 45 FPS is because your actual available FPS is higher than 45, but doesn't reach 90. This could mean that your FPS is 87, but ASW is forcing 45 FPS. Locking the frames to 45 instead of allowing a fluctuation between 45 and 90 prevents undesirable effects of VR such as edge tearing and motion sickness.

 

Actually no, I am not locking the frames with ASW, I fly with ASW disabled.

With my current settings I get in the 60's/70's over Normandy, and 90 over water.

I will occasionally see 45 fps whilst landing and taking off.

 

1.0 Pixel Density

No shadows

4x MSAA

Edited February 8, 2018 by dburne

[Buckeye]

To be honest in this build 2x/4x is only really noticeable over Vegas and even then doesn't seem to matter as much as it used to, but this may just be the result of my getting accustomed to a lower PD.

 

Basically 2x doesn't seem much worse than 4, but also 4x doesn't seem that much better than 2x either. But neither are bad to a distracting degree and especially not away from Vegas.

 

Performance also doesn't seem all that different either to be honest but I don't have any numbers for you. 4 does look better though at least in my tinker-addled probably by now delusional brain!

 

Doesn't matter either way though cause I keep reminding myself how much better the game looks now I am able to enable deferred shading! Any time I start thinking how I want this or that or more of this or less of that, I remind myself how fantastic this sim looks now. Helicoptering into the dust cloud you've just created never gets old!

 

The biggest problem for me is the lighting. I can only really fly at certain times of the day and not at all at night! I also seem to have to delete the fxo and metashaders folders periodically now, so I think there's definitely issues! It's certainly not a polished experience but hey Beta and all that!

 

My advice decide on your settings and stick with them! Just have fun!

 

I think if you play MP with lots of other players, until the game is better optimized (and I think certain modules are improved) you're going to have problems.

 

Appreciate the insight, and yes...I fly pretty much exclusively in MP in the 104th (a heavily scripted mission with thousands of units), so I need to factor that into the performance I will see.

 

Buckeye, I have a monster system which is meticulously maintained (see OP for specs, 25yrs in tech). I spent two 8hr days trying every reasonable combination of PD MSAA settings.

The short answer to your question is this:

- 1.2PD and 2xMSAA is 8 quality 8 performance

- 1.2PD and 4xMSAA is 8+ quality 4 performance

 

According to my personal test results, going over 2xMSAA in VR creates too significant a performance drop to be viable. 1.2PD 2xMSAA was the sweet spot for my system, achieving 8 quality 8 performance.

 

You'll notice that the quality/performance variations are not at all linear or logical.

Here's the full analytical breakdown:

 

[TABLE]

__PD__

|

_MSAA_

|

_Quality_

|Performance

1|

0

|

0

|

10

1.2

|

0

|

2

|

10

1.4

|

0

|

4

|

10

1.6

|

0

|

4

|

10

1.8

|

0

|

4

|

8

2.0

|

0

|

6

|

6

1

|

2

|

6

|

10

1.2

|

2

|

8

|

8

1.4

|

2

|

8

|

6

1.6

|

2

|

10

|

4

1.8

|

2

|

10

|

2

2.0

|

2

|

10

|

2

1

|

4

|

8

|

4

1.2

|

4

|

8

|

4

1.4

|

4

|

8

|

2

1.6

|

4

|

10

|

0

1.8

|

4

|

10

|

0

2.0

|

4

|

10

|

0

1

|

8

|

8

|

2

1.2+

|

8

|

10

|

0

[/TABLE]

 

Incredibly helpful post, thank you sincerely for this. +1, it should be very helpful not only to myself, but also to many others in the same dilemma.

 

I think I will try 1.2PD + 2x MSAA tonight after returning home from the office :thumbup: As efficiencies are gained in the coding of 2.5 over time, I will continue to creep back up with the settings.

[StrongHarm]

dburne, sorry for explaining something that you already understood. You specifically mentioned a 45 FPS limit in your last post, so I thought it was ASW. Maybe someone else will find the explanation useful.

 

If you try 1.2PD 2xMSAA with shadows on (flat) and deferred shading on, reply with your findings and system specs. It's a good balance on my system with a quality of 8 and performance of 8.

 

I can run with shadows, but can only maintain 45 fps over Normandy. Without I can get higher.

[dburne]

dburne, sorry for explaining something that you already understood. You specifically mentioned a 45 FPS limit in your last post, so I thought it was ASW. Maybe someone else will find the explanation useful.

 

If you try 1.2PD 2xMSAA with shadows on (flat) and deferred shading on, reply with your findings and system specs. It's a good balance on my system with a quality of 8 and performance of 8.

 

Thanks, I will give that a try - will be tomorrow morning before I can - will advise. I always have deferred shading on, it has definitely grown on me lol.

[M1Combat]

I'd like to further suggest the 1.2PD and 2xMSAA suggestion. It works and allows other settings to be raised. It's a great place to be from a pixels/performance standpoint :).

[Buckeye]

Can also recommend the 1.2PD and 2x MSAA...great balance. I'm running with everything else on High, max sliders, 16x AF and it's holding 45+ pretty much constantly. I'm still running in to issues on the 104th around Kutaisi on the ground and around Kolki, but other than that it was running really great for me (FWIW I think even with the lowest settings I'd have issues in these areas).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Boris]

I can also confirm the 1.2 PD 2x MSAA combination as working really well.

 

I was a little disappointed with 2.5 at the start, but now having tweaked everything I'm getting very nice performance with reasonably good graphics settings, including deferred shading.

Definitely looks much nicer than 1.5, with at least the same performance, if not better.

 

I'm looking forward to the further gains with the Vulcan API implementation.

[ram0506]

I gave 1.2 PD and 2x MSAA a try and have to say that for me it`s not the best solution. After some testing I returned to 1.6 PD with no MSAA. Shimmering with 1.6 PD is about the same (maybe a bit more), but cockpit gauges are better readable and performance is better.

With 1.2 PD and 2x MSAA I have stuttering in situations in which I have none when using only 1.6 PD. That`s for Caucasus map and even more noticeable on Normandy map.

Edited February 9, 2018 by ram0506

[exil]

Also on 1.2PD and 2 x MSAA. Good results here with deferred shaddows on, shaddows flat and visibility medium to high (depending) with a GTX 1080 (non ti).

 

Also tried 1.0 PD and 4 x MSAA. Also good results with less jaggies but a little less performance and a more bluried cockpit.

 

I'm still not shure which option to take...

[M1Combat]

@ram0506 I ran those settings as well and yes they seem good. For what it's worth I don't care to see the gauges clearly. As long as I can see about where they're pointed I'm good :). Right now the larger issue on that subject IMO is the cockpit lighting :).

[StrongHarm]

ram0506, your stuttering situation may not be due to 1.2PD 2xMSAA. If you have time, try to following and reply with result:

- Delete files from FXO and Metashaders as outlined in OP

- Preload Radius - down to at least 30k, but preferably min setting

- AF - 2x ( I know, this isn't supposed to cause stuttering, but I assure you it does right now )

- Terrain Objects - Flat

 

Also, be aware that some people who are having stuttering issues are deleting their 'updated' installation and performing a reinstall from the full 2.5 distribution. I did this and it made DCS much smoother for me. My theory on this is that people who have had DCS for a long time may have a number of junk files that existed before the DCS installer app, and they're not being deleted even though they're not needed.

[Wolf8312]

@ram0506 I ran those settings as well and yes they seem good. For what it's worth I don't care to see the gauges clearly. As long as I can see about where they're pointed I'm good :). Right now the larger issue on that subject IMO is the cockpit lighting :).

 

I'm finding its best to keep my gamma settings higher and just fly earlier in the morning or at night! One mission on Vegas in December, with 2 gamma, at (I think) 6.55 just looks basically real in that light but if the gamma was too low everything would be way too dark so I am rethinking my 1.5 gamma.

 

I found 1.6 PD with no MSSA so full of jaggies that I didn't really suffer much by dropping PD all the way down to 1.2. It does give fantastic performance, but I think without any MSSA you might as well just forget graphics altogether and go all out for performance! Clear gauges are also not high on my list of priorities either!

[sze5003]

Used to run a PD of 1.8 on mix of high settings. Now I just run 1.5 PD and the settings on high except civ traffic low. FPS average around 50 but sticks to 45 most of the time. The highest was 90 but it's very rare it goes that high.

 

I7 8700k @5.0ghz, 32gb ram, 1080ti and running on a 1tb Evo SSD.

 

I recently turned off global cockpit illumination and turn msaa to 2X with deferred shading on.

 

Screen shot is old. Preload radius full to the right, smoke chimney density to 2. Left grass at default.

[ram0506]

ram0506, your stuttering situation may not be due to 1.2PD 2xMSAA. If you have time, try to following and reply with result:

- Delete files from FXO and Metashaders as outlined in OP

- Preload Radius - down to at least 30k, but preferably min setting

- AF - 2x ( I know, this isn't supposed to cause stuttering, but I assure you it does right now )

- Terrain Objects - Flat

 

Also, be aware that some people who are having stuttering issues are deleting their 'updated' installation and performing a reinstall from the full 2.5 distribution. I did this and it made DCS much smoother for me. My theory on this is that people who have had DCS for a long time may have a number of junk files that existed before the DCS installer app, and they're not being deleted even though they're not needed.

 

Thank you for your reply and those advices.

I did delete the named files.

I myself wouldn`t go that far to say that I have excessive problems with stuttering. My settings are overall very high (view distance ultra, trees max, all textures high, AF 16x). And yes, of course lowering some of those settings will eliminate the stuttering. But for example setting AF to 2x is way too low for good quality of textures when on ground.

That`s why I will stay with the 1.6 PD and no MSAA settings, as I have smooth game play with those settings in most cases on the Caucasus-map. Normandy map is another thing. And thinking about the Hornet, I really want that cockpit and MFDs as much readable as possible.

Stuttering increases noticeable when using MSAA, no matter if 2x or 4x and no matter what PD i use in combination with it.

I don`t have much time for testing in the next days, but I will try what lowering preload radius and overall flat shadows will be able to achieve.

Thanks again and greetings!:thumbup:

Edited February 10, 2018 by ram0506

[StrongHarm]

Edited OP with a new performance step:

 

I've seen a lot of threads about problems being solved by uninstalling the upgrade then reinstalling using the full 2.5 install. I decided to try it and see if there was a difference. I found that I had about 300 files less in \Program Files\ after the reinstall. My theory is that those files were leftovers from a time before ED launched DCSupdater. I haven't cleaned those folders in probably 5 years. It seems that I'm loading missions faster and that I have less stuttering. I acknowledge that this could be a placebo effect, but at the very least I'm glad that I cleaned up the file structure.

[StrongHarm]

There were some discussions about using MSAAx4 instead of X2. Not only does X4 decrease my performance drastically, but it also introduces visual trails on edges when I turn my head, especially on cockpit objects. I try to avoid this effect at all costs. It will decrease your immersion and cause a lot of eye strain in VR.