Stutters

[silentbob11]

Hi gents

while 2.5 looks great I've been struggling with massive stutters like many others in this forum as I can see.

while my FPS are good even in very high settings, the stutters are HUGE even in low settings, some of them are 10 -30 seconds freeze ups, rendering this beta version unplayable for me.

question is - what's causing it? is it my aging CPU? (i7 2700 at 3.4 mHz?) is it my RAM (16GB) my HD (should I get an SSD?) or my GPU? (GFX 970)

probably - all of the above, but I'd like an advise on what is a must - to get the stutters to reasonable rate or to get rid of it altogether if possible.

 

thnx in advance!

 

SB

[scampaboy]

I'm not sure about your CPU

 

but you for definite could do with an SSD, and thats not some wild recomendation (buy the most expensive or whatever) it will help your system overall not just with DCS

[silentbob11]

thnx scampaboy

Admit that SSD was my first thought too, but than I kinda hesitated - won't my old CPU and RAM bottleneck the SSD? and anyway which SSD is recommended for DCS?

 

SB11

[Art-J]

Stutters discussed all around this forum are fraction-of-a-second type. Whatever happens on your machine, ain't right and I'd say it's certainly NOT the fault of CPU, GPU and RAM, which are not beefy, but not worthless for DCS either.

 

But such long freezes sound unusual and excessive for an HDD too, unless it's really slow and being hammered by some other programs activity in the background as well.

 

Which SSD is recommended? Unfortunately, they're getting expensive nowadays again, but just get ANY of them, I've got one of the cheapest and it already made a massive difference. Size is the only limitation, with DCS getting more and more bloaty, a 240GB+ SSD is a must.

[silentbob11]

Thnx Art-J for your reply,

I've just ordered a 500GB SSD a few minutes ago... :)

as you said DCS is getting bloated, and with the addition of the F-18 it's gonna get morbidly obis... :) I hope some of this stutters issues are gonna get ironed out when the release version will be ready, but was thinking about upgrading my CPU as well - what is your take about it?

 

SB11

[Art-J]

Never had a 2500-2600K series CPU, aren't these the famous ones that could be easily overclocked to 4+ GHz figures? I would investigate this option first, as it's uncertain if any new gen CPU could fit your old mobo anyway.

[_schepper_]

yes, A 2600K is verry easy, and because dcs use 2 cores its a must :)

lot off tutorials how to overclock safly :)

 

here a print screen of my overclock.. its stable and didnt push it.

 

Edit: the only thing that is recomended is not the original processor cooler..

I run a noctua nh-d15

Edited March 3, 2018 by _schepper_

[Burning Bridges]

Ah yes, I know these stutters and have worked quite a lot to remove them. My theory is that DCS does not use enough RAM .. and unless you already have 32 or 64 Gbytes that boils down to bandwidth.

 

Imo, if you have these problems and want something to be done a SSD is a must. And it's not only use the SSD to store the game. The thing that helped me most is to put the pagefile on a SSD. My fps stayed up at 60 both with and without that. But with the virtual memory on the SSD, the dips are only into 50s whereas before that I would see them go down to 30s. Is this conclusive? To me it is inasfar as it helped a great deal reducing the dips, as I suspect those dips happen when DCS loads extra data which sometimes turns out unpredictibly much (you sure notice how this seems to depend on certain view angles in external view where fps get suddenly extremely low in one particular angle)

 

I have 16GB RAM and put another 16 on my SSD. I also maxed out preload. I would really like to know understand what Preload setting dies on anything, but theoretically is should prioritize holding as much data in memory as early as possible than to load it in the last moment so to speak. So again, it should prevent the game from loading a lot of data when you least want it.

 

Ah, and btw if this works and you want even better performance you get eiterh get more RAM and or invest in one of those new NVMe drives by Samsung. They are ca 6-8 times faster than SSDs still, though you need a decicated controller to use their full potential.

[BitMaster]

any 2600k I dare to say goes 4.5 with a decent cooler, mine went 5G with WC.

 

Still a very good CPU, I think i would still have it if it hadnt quit on me.

 

A true Milestone CPU

[silentbob11]

just went to another mission on 2.5.0 this time at the "Georgian wars" campaign with an F-15.

I have noticed that the stutters became insanely long when bandits entered my "bubble" and dogfight became almost impossible to handle.

I don't know if it means something, just thought that I should mention it.

 

Oh, exiting the game took like forever and my whole system became sluggish after it - again don't know if it means something...

 

SB11

Edited March 3, 2018 by silentbob11

[silentbob11]

@Burning_bridges:

you wrote: The thing that helped me most is to put the pagefile on a SSD

 

where id this pagefile located?

 

SB11

[Demon_]

No need to relocate the pagefile, if you install Windows and your games on your new 500GB. And pump up this K higher as you can.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Demon_

[Demon_]

Your first step should be:

Run MSI Afterburner to monitor your Vram usage. Don't use more than 3.5GB.

Use more than 3.5GB generate a serious performance drop or stuttering: https://www.pcgamer.com/why-nvidias-gtx-970-slows-down-using-more-than-35gb-vram/

Edited March 3, 2018 by Demon_

[silentbob11]

Your first step should be:

Run MSI Afterburner to monitor your Vram usage. Don't use more than 3.5GB.

Use more than 3.5GB generate a serious performance drop or stuttering: https://www.pcgamer.com/why-nvidias-gtx-970-slows-down-using-more-than-35gb-vram/

 

Thing is my FPS are high all the way the stutters are huge gaps like freeze ups. Some of them taking as long as 30-60 seconds...:(

 

sB11

[JABO2009]

Hi gents

while 2.5 looks great I've been struggling with massive stutters like many others in this forum as I can see.

while my FPS are good even in very high settings, the stutters are HUGE even in low settings, some of them are 10 -30 seconds freeze ups, rendering this beta version unplayable for me.

question is - what's causing it? is it my aging CPU? (i7 2700 at 3.4 mHz?) is it my RAM (16GB) my HD (should I get an SSD?) or my GPU? (GFX 970)

probably - all of the above, but I'd like an advise on what is a must - to get the stutters to reasonable rate or to get rid of it altogether if possible.

 

thnx in advance!

 

SB

 

I have (had) similar specs than you, had stutters and switched from HDD to SSD and from 16GB to 24GB RAM... solved the troubles for me..

[silentbob11]

I have (had) similar specs than you, had stutters and switched from HDD to SSD and from 16GB to 24GB RAM... solved the troubles for me..

 

don't think I can amp my MOBO to 24 GB RAM... :(

 

SB11

[_schepper_]

don't think I can amp my MOBO to 24 GB RAM... :(

 

SB11

I dont think thats a need to go to 24 ram...

 

Ssd is a verry good start.

 

I run on 16 GB ram and play vr with most to max on pd 1.5

 

And most of the time 45fps some time a little drop to 30fps but no stutters..

 

I think ssd and overclock the cpu is the main goal... and after that the gpu... but those are expencife at the time.

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

i7 2600K oc 4.6g / asus gtx 1080 gaming x+ / 16gig ram / ssd 500gig / oculus rift / jetseat se / saitek rudder ((next upgrade)mfg crosswind) / logitech warthog hotas + 20cm extention / vaicompro 2.5

[Burning Bridges]

I dunno. It probably would great if we understand wether DCS uses all available memory. I had the feeling it would not.

 

But putting the pagefile on your SSD (or better NVME) it basically acts like 2nd level RAM (what nasty people would refer to as "potato RAM"). The NANDs on your SSD are not as fast as RAM, not by a mile, but technically it's probably not needed anyway and just slows down the system when there are random accesses to the harddisk. with 10 times faster SSD - compared to harddisk - I find it very noticeably alleviated, and I guess with a properly installed PCI 4x NVME it will probably be gone entirely. Same with 32 GB RAM. Just don't let your system read virtual memory from a harddisk that is so 1990. (on the other hand not many programs except DCS/Arma and such geodata heavy sims make much use of this, so you can merrily set it back to HD for office work)

 

Another way to try would be to deactivate the pagefile altogether but this will probably lead to crashes, once your system runs out of memory entirely. But if I had 32 GB or more this would actually be first thing I would try.

 

Ah, and that some people think this is not good for your SSD. It should be no problem but it does not exactly prolong the lifetime of the SSD either. But since I have already two SSDs and plan to get a NVME next, I can afford the risk of my old crappy SanDisk getting stressed a little. If it breaks, you will be the first to know. It would also possible to buy a cheap 128 GB SSD just for virtual memory. They cost as little as 40$, cause no one wants such small drives any more. Compared to 300$+ for a new 32 GB set of good, matched RAM, I would rather bite into the cheap replacement until RAM prices normalized, and that could take 1 or 2 years.

 

@Burning_bridges:

you wrote: The thing that helped me most is to put the pagefile on a SSD

 

where id this pagefile located?

 

SB11

 

@silentbob11 I refer you to this guide. https://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/simple-ways-to-increase-your-computers-performace-configuring-the-paging-file/

 

I set the values for my primary SSD minimum and maximum 16384 (16GB) and also (this is important) removed pagefile from all mechanical harddisk. Having pagefiles on 3 or 4 different drives, half of them harddisks sounds like it could be more harm than good. You want to a) reduce the disk access during flying as much as possible and b) the unavoidable accesses to be as fast as possible.

 

And btw, I have set preload radius now back to 100,000 and fps are still excellent. I don't understand 100% what this does at all, but going 2/3 on an unknown variable sounds more "right" to me than max.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Burning Bridges

[silentbob11]

I dunno. It probably would great if we understand wether DCS uses all available memory. I had the feeling it would not.

 

But putting the pagefile on your SSD (or better NVME) it basically acts like 2nd level RAM (what nasty people would refer to as "potato RAM"). The NANDs on your SSD are not as fast as RAM, not by a mile, but technically it's probably not needed anyway and just slows down the system when there are random accesses to the harddisk. with 10 times faster SSD - compared to harddisk - I find it very noticeably alleviated, and I guess with a properly installed PCI 4x NVME it will probably be gone entirely. Same with 32 GB RAM. Just don't let your system read virtual memory from a harddisk that is so 1990. (on the other hand not many programs except DCS/Arma and such geodata heavy sims make much use of this, so you can merrily set it back to HD for office work)

 

Another way to try would be to deactivate the pagefile altogether but this will probably lead to crashes, once your system runs out of memory entirely. But if I had 32 GB or more this would actually be first thing I would try.

 

Ah, and that some people think this is not good for your SSD. It should be no problem but it does not exactly prolong the lifetime of the SSD either. But since I have already two SSDs and plan to get a NVME next, I can afford the risk of my old crappy SanDisk getting stressed a little. If it breaks, you will be the first to know. It would also possible to buy a cheap 128 GB SSD just for virtual memory. They cost as little as 40$, cause no one wants such small drives any more. Compared to 300$+ for a new 32 GB set of good, matched RAM, I would rather bite into the cheap replacement until RAM prices normalized, and that could take 1 or 2 years.

 

 

 

@silentbob11 I refer you to this guide. https://www.online-tech-tips.com/computer-tips/simple-ways-to-increase-your-computers-performace-configuring-the-paging-file/

 

I set the values for my primary SSD minimum and maximum 16384 (16GB) and also (this is important) removed pagefile from all mechanical harddisk. Having pagefiles on 3 or 4 different drives, half of them harddisks sounds like it could be more harm than good. You want to a) reduce the disk access during flying as much as possible and b) the unavoidable accesses to be as fast as possible.

 

And btw, I have set preload radius now back to 100,000 and fps are still excellent. I don't understand 100% what this does at all, but going 2/3 on an unknown variable sounds more "right" to me than max.

 

 

I plan ti completely erase the game from my hard drive and intall it on the SSD. would this have anything to do with the pagefile?

 

SB11

[Cibit]

See what the SSD does for your system before tinkering furthur you will be pleasantly surprised :)

[prccowboy]

would this have anything to do with the pagefile?

 

The pagefile is controlled by Windows (separate from DCS); basically, it allows Windows to have more storage room than your physical RAM (by storing some of it on a HDD). So, having it on a faster SSD may reduce stutters. You can also check your Windows' power settings. If your pc decides it needs info on a HDD that has powered down, then you have to wait for the drive to spin back up (causing stutter)

 

Also, you might try turning off Nvidia's shader cache if your system drive is not a SSD. I have seen pro's and cons on both sides of this one (Shader Cache ON or OFF), but since it also stores info on your HDD it could be the source of stutters. Try it both ways and see what works for you.

Edited March 4, 2018 by prccowboy

[silentbob11]

See what the SSD does for your system before tinkering furthur you will

be pleasantly surprised :)

 

and by that you mean - completely earse the game from HD and install it on the SSD, and wait with the pagefile stuff?

[prccowboy]

and by that you mean - completely earse the game from HD and install it on the SSD, and wait with the pagefile stuff?

 

I have DCS on a dedicated SSD and Windows system files on another SSD; however, I also had some big stutters. I noticed that the stutters coincided with HDD activity (HDD light was on), so I checked with Windows Task Manager and saw that there was activity on a completely different drive (one of my mechanical HDDs). It turns out I had a pagefile running on that HDD. I moved the pagefile back to a SSD only and the stutters went away.

 

With your 16GB RAM you could attempt removing the pagefile completely which will stop the HDD activity of the pagefile, BUT this might cause crashes if RAM use creeps too high (possible with the current memory leak or if you play MP)

[Burning Bridges]

I plan ti completely erase the game from my hard drive and intall it on the SSD. would this have anything to do with the pagefile?

 

SB11

 

No :) Virtual memory is something that the operating system controls. But the good news is, if you only move the game to the SSD it will already be very beneficial on its own right.

[Burning Bridges]

With your 16GB RAM you could attempt removing the pagefile completely which will stop the HDD activity of the pagefile, BUT this might cause crashes if RAM use creeps too high (possible with the current memory leak or if you play MP)

 

As I wrote I used to do that in the past, but I don't recommend it for games like DCS anymore, because they get dangerously close to running out of memory. But if you have 32 GB RAM I would say it should be the best solution.

 

Of course you can also try it with 16 GB, there is nothing bad gonna happen if you just fly a simple training mission because that barely uses 4-8GB. Problems can only happen with heavier loads like campaigns. And if the stutters go away you are one step closer to a solution because now you now it was caused by disk access.

 

and by that you mean - completely earse the game from HD and install it on the SSD, and wait with the pagefile stuff?

 

Yes, until you have the game installed on your new SSD and understand what a pagefile is about, I would forego that step. It should however be said that setting the pagefile is only a matter of a few minutes and 1 reboot.

 

Also you should understand the possible lifetime implications for your SSD. I personally I think it's not gonna be a problem - the maximum write cycles of SSDs are not the same as 10 years ago - but it should be kept in mind. A SSD does not get better with writing and rewriting the whole day 'til Kingdom Come.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Burning Bridges