Takeoff Configuration (CV and Shore)

[Eagle7907]

I really need some help clearing the mud on this topic. From what I currently understand is the FA18 definitely uses flap setting for takeoff.

 

Where it gets muddy is the shore takeoff normally uses HALF setting. Now according to NATOP manual it says HALF or FULL for CV takeoff. However, the 8-1 figure for trim setting only applies for HALF flap setting. So what trim setting do I use for FULL flap setting?

 

Also, do I also manually set the trim for shore takeoff too?

 

 

8.2.5 Before Catapult Hook-Up. Before taxi onto the catapult, complete the takeoff checklist, set the standby attitude reference indicator for use if the HUD fails during the launch. With flaps HALF or FULL, the takeoff trim button should be pressed until the TRIM advisory appears and then the horizontal stabilator trim should be manually positioned for CG location, excess end airspeed and power setting for launch. The takeoff trim button need not be pressed between successive launches in a single flight. With an asymmetric load, trim stabilator for normal position then trim differential stabilator unloaded wing down. The trim settings in figure 8-1 are applicable for HALF flaps only, all air-to-air stores, air-to-ground stores, clean aircraft, external fuel tanks, gross weights and launch CG between 17.0 and 27.5% MAC. For normal operation, 15 knots excess end airspeed above minimum is recommended.

 

 

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Edited June 2, 2018 by Eagle7907

[MrDieing]

Take off on shore = Take-off trim (stablizers 12 degrees up) + HALF flaps

Take off on Carrier = HALF or FULL depending on several factors. You should be good 9 out of 10 times with HALF. For trim use the following (set manually)

 

 

 

Below 44,000 gross weight = stab trim 16 degrees (MIL or burners)

 

45,000 to 48,000 gross weight = stab trim 17 degrees (MIL or burners)

 

49,000 and above = stab trim 19 degrees (Burners required)

[Antimon]

Probably a dumb question but where do you see the trim setting that's currently active? FCS page?

[Eagle7907]

Probably a dumb question but where do you see the trim setting that's currently active? FCS page?

 

 

 

Yes, it’s the STAB value

 

 

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[razo+r]

Probably a dumb question but where do you see the trim setting that's currently active? FCS page?

 

Correct, FCS page.

[Antimon]

Thank you gentlemen :)

[Eagle7907]

Take off on shore = Take-off trim (stablizers 12 degrees up) + HALF flaps

Take off on Carrier = HALF or FULL depending on several factors. You should be good 9 out of 10 times with HALF. For trim use the following (set manually)

 

 

 

Below 44,000 gross weight = stab trim 16 degrees (MIL or burners)

 

45,000 to 48,000 gross weight = stab trim 17 degrees (MIL or burners)

 

49,000 and above = stab trim 19 degrees (Burners required)

 

 

 

Right. I understand the HALF values here. But my question is what about FULL? Is that even a normal procedure? If so, where is this information? NATOPs seems to touch it but doesn’t really go any further. Can anyone verify this with a Hornet driver?

 

 

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[Los]

BTW I set the Flaps to full and take off from the carrier every time w/o issues regardless of the weight. Not even using trim settings.

[Eagle7907]

BTW I set the Flaps to full and take off from the carrier every time w/o issues regardless of the weight. Not even using trim settings.

 

 

 

That’s what I’m trying to verify if that is the correct procedure or not. The manual doesn’t clearly say it is or not.

 

 

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[Sierra99]

Weight is displayed on the checklist pages.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Sierra99

[erautour]

Trim setting is also on the Checklist page. Aircraft weight is there also

[Sierra99]

BTW I set the Flaps to full and take off from the carrier every time w/o issues regardless of the weight. Not even using trim settings.

 

Just because it works...doesn’t mean it’s correct.

[Eagle7907]

Just because it works...doesn’t mean it’s correct.

 

 

 

But you don’t know that, and clearly no one else knows. At this point it’s all assumptions made and no answer to this has been given.

 

 

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[Sierra99]

I think you are misreading this sentence.

 

“With flaps HALF or FULL, the takeoff trim button should be pressed until the TRIM advisory appears and then the horizontal stabilator trim should be manually positioned for CG location, excess end airspeed and power setting for launch.”

 

I don’t believe this indicates the flap setting for “takeoff” can be HALF or FULL. This indicates the flap setting must be in the HALF or FULL positio for the T/O Trim function to operate properly.

 

I can find nothing in the NATOPS or the Performance Manual indicating FULL Flaps is allowed or approximate for Takeoff.

[tekrc]

I think you are misreading this sentence.

 

“With flaps HALF or FULL, the takeoff trim button should be pressed until the TRIM advisory appears and then the horizontal stabilator trim should be manually positioned for CG location, excess end airspeed and power setting for launch.”

 

This indicates the flap setting must be in the HALF or FULL positio for the T/O Trim function to operate properly.

 

T/O trim button works even with flaps in auto. goes to the same value as the other settings

[fitness88]

Is there a button(s) to zero out all the trims?

I find the plane auto trims, I don't need to adjust J-stick to correct my flight.

Edited June 3, 2018 by fitness88

[Eagle7907]

I think you are misreading this sentence.

 

 

 

“With flaps HALF or FULL, the takeoff trim button should be pressed until the TRIM advisory appears and then the horizontal stabilator trim should be manually positioned for CG location, excess end airspeed and power setting for launch.”

 

 

 

I don’t believe this indicates the flap setting for “takeoff” can be HALF or FULL. This indicates the flap setting must be in the HALF or FULL positio for the T/O Trim function to operate properly.

 

 

 

I can find nothing in the NATOPS or the Performance Manual indicating FULL Flaps is allowed or approximate for Takeoff.

 

 

 

Okay. I believe you are correct. Because at the later half of the paragraph it says figure 8-1 applies to HALF flaps only and a laundry list of all load out configurations and conditions. I did not know the performance charts only used HALF flaps for CV takeoff calculations. That does speak volume even though there isn’t a sentence stating FULL flap CV takeoff is prohibited. That’s the government for ya.

 

 

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[Eagle7907]

Takeoff Configuration (CV and Shore)

 

Is there a button(s) to zero out all the trims?

I find the plane auto trims, I don't need to adjust J-stick to correct my flight.

 

 

 

From what I understand the TO Trim button does zero out roll and yaw trim with weight on wheels (on ground). Don’t quote me, but I looked over this two days ago and I remember something on those lines.

 

Edit - I was almost correct. It zeros the roll and yaw, but it brings stab trim up to 12 degrees. If you press it in flight it just neutralizes the mechanical stick position. No effect on the actual trim devices.

 

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Edited June 3, 2018 by Eagle7907

[fitness88]

From what I understand the TO Trim button does zero out roll and yaw trim with weight on wheels (on ground). Don’t quote me, but I looked over this two days ago and I remember something on those lines.

 

Edit - I was almost correct. It zeros the roll and yaw, but it brings stab trim up to 12 degrees. If you press it in flight it just neutralizes the mechanical stick position. No effect on the actual trim devices.

 

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After testing, the take off trim button r-shift + f only resets the rudder when pushed.

So all trim except rudder has to be manually zero out?

[Eagle7907]

Takeoff Configuration (CV and Shore)

 

Hmmm. What flaps do you have selected?

 

Edit- here’s what natops manual says.

 

2.8.2.2.7 T/O Trim Button. The T/O trim button is in the center of the rudder trim knob on the FCS panel. With WOW, HOLDING THE BUTTON pressed drives the roll and yaw trim to the neutral position, stabilator to 4° nose up (10.3 PROM AND BELOW) or 12° nose up (10.5.1 PROM AND UP), and zeros the MECH stick position. When the roll and yaw control surfaces are trimmed to neutral and the stabila- tor to 4°/12° nose up, the TRIM advisory is displayed on the DDI until the button is released. In flight and CAS, pressing the T/O trim button only neutralizes the MECH stick position.

 

Ah! Try holding the button. Just noticed that.

 

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Edited June 3, 2018 by Eagle7907

[fitness88]

Hmmm. What flaps do you have selected?

 

Edit- here’s what natops manual says.

 

2.8.2.2.7 T/O Trim Button. The T/O trim button is in the center of the rudder trim knob on the FCS panel. With WOW, HOLDING THE BUTTON pressed drives the roll and yaw trim to the neutral position, stabilator to 4° nose up (10.3 PROM AND BELOW) or 12° nose up (10.5.1 PROM AND UP), and zeros the MECH stick position. When the roll and yaw control surfaces are trimmed to neutral and the stabila- tor to 4°/12° nose up, the TRIM advisory is displayed on the DDI until the button is released. In flight and CAS, pressing the T/O trim button only neutralizes the MECH stick position.

 

Ah! Try holding the button. Just noticed that.

 

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You are correct.

You can see the numbers change dramatically when choosing half, or full flaps then they zero out rapidly when you choose auto flap BUT the trims will not unless you press the T/O TB for rudder only and press/hold T/O TB for ail and stab.

[fitness88]

The issue is it takes too long pressing/holding to zero out ailerons and stab, why doesn't it zero out with 1 quick press like rudders do?

 

 

I don't see any difference T/O trim and half flaps 12/30/30/30/12

Edited June 3, 2018 by fitness88

[Beetle]

Put the flaps into AUTO also sets the trim to AUTO (So I have been lead to believe)