Cold War 1947 - 1991

[Miccara]

Played "When The Mountains Cry", today. Huey in number one slot would not start under any circumstances. It goes through all the motions, except the rotor stays still and will not fly. I moved to the the number four slot and that one started. Not sure if it was my side glitching or the server. Just putting it out there in case it comes up again.

[Apok]

"When The Mountains Cry" needs  maybe something given to Blue like a fast ground unit. I cant remember when Blue won that mission. We always rush all lakes with BMPs. Airwar is just a distraction. I know some complained Bradley is slow.

[Alpenwolf]

16 hours ago, Conker4 said:

@Alpenwolf 

 

With the new pylon limiting feature, it would be cool if you could make the Viggen an interceptor and attacker. For example you can have a couple slots as a pure fighter, allowing it to carry the sidewinders and rocket pods while giving it access to a proportionate amount of missiles when compared to the Migs and f5. For the attack aircraft you could now just limit it to wingtip missiles allowing for the separation of roles and controlling the amount of planes being used as fighters.

 

 

I appreciate that this would take some time to implement, just an idea.

 

 

So far the Viggen has always been added to the missions to accomplish air-to-ground operations. Giving some of them the ability to go air-to-air only, would force me to add more slots to compensate for the the lack of Viggens doing air-to-ground. That'd be more Viggens than I ever wanted (Swedish Delivery is an exception). Obviously, if you want to go air-to-air only you can still do that with 2-4 missiles. Always remember that F-5's and MiG-19's have only 2.

 

7 hours ago, Miccara said:

Played "When The Mountains Cry", today. Huey in number one slot would not start under any circumstances. It goes through all the motions, except the rotor stays still and will not fly. I moved to the the number four slot and that one started. Not sure if it was my side glitching or the server. Just putting it out there in case it comes up again.

 

Must be on your end, I'm afraid. All single helipads are the same. Same static object.

 

3 minutes ago, Apok said:

"When The Mountains Cry" needs  maybe something given to Blue like a fast ground unit. I cant remember when Blue won that mission. We always rush all lakes with BMPs. Airwar is just a distraction. I know some complained Bradley is slow.

 

The Bradley is just as fast and can easily take out multiple BMP-2's before they could react. Pretty much comparable with the Abrams vs the T-72 scenario.

Blue has never won the mission, that's true. Not even when the Harrier was around. Can't tell you why though.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Alpenwolf

[Lurker]

An interceptor doesn't necessarily mean that an aircraft needs to maneuverable. In fact, the best interceptors were usually anything BUT maneuverable. The Mig21 is not an interceptor by design. It might have been used in that role, especially later and by client states who could not afford a dedicated interceptor (or didn't need one) but it was always designed to be a fighter first and foremost. 

[Raviar]

17 hours ago, Conker4 said:

@Alpenwolf 

 

With the new pylon limiting feature, it would be cool if you could make the Viggen an interceptor and attacker. For example you can have a couple slots as a pure fighter, allowing it to carry the sidewinders and rocket pods while giving it access to a proportionate amount of missiles when compared to the Migs and f5. For the attack aircraft you could now just limit it to wingtip missiles allowing for the separation of roles and controlling the amount of planes being used as fighters.

 

 

I appreciate that this would take some time to implement, just an idea.

 

The DCS AJS 37 cant do Air to Air against MiG-21 or MiG-19, or MiG-15... for that matter we can use F-5 in future F-4, and other Cold war era if added to DCS like F-105 ...
You might use it as Interceptor but thats not the AJS 37 role (as strike aircraft)! JA 37 was the one built for A/A role with different engine, different maneuverability, different radar ...

Although people can use it for Air to Air but forcing to use it as Ait to Air ONLY! probably its not a way for Viggen pilots in DCS and Coldwar server!

I myself fly F-5 in A/A mostly and Viggen in A/G mostly in cold war server 

[Enigma89]

 

Pretty fun sortie on one of my favorite missions on the server.

[Koty]

3 hours ago, Raviar said:

The DCS AJS 37 cant do Air to Air against MiG-21 or MiG-19, or MiG-15... for that matter we can use F-5 in future F-4, and other Cold war era if added to DCS like F-105 ...
You might use it as Interceptor but thats not the AJS 37 role (as strike aircraft)! JA 37 was the one built for A/A role with different engine, different maneuverability, different radar ...

Although people can use it for Air to Air but forcing to use it as Ait to Air ONLY! probably its not a way for Viggen pilots in DCS and Coldwar server!

I myself fly F-5 in A/A mostly and Viggen in A/G mostly in cold war server 

you could actually just turn off the outermost pylons and have a decent stand in for true cold war AJ-37, there might be other details to tune tho

[rossmum]

1 hour ago, Koty said:

you could actually just turn off the outermost pylons and have a decent stand in for true cold war AJ-37, there might be other details to tune tho

 

Relevant thread

 

There was also a post in a separate thread that explicitly detailed the possible loadouts, overall the biggest change to what's posted in the above is that it was possible to carry Rb 75 and Rb 24 simultaneously, but in an asymmetric manner. I don't have the link to the pdf handy but someone else might. In any case, the main differences are no usable outer wing pylons (wired for Falcons, if memory serves correctly?) and no 4x AAM or 4x Rb 75 loadouts, no TERNAV, and of course none of the more modern weapons which were already removed from the server anyway. Lack of TERNAV was in part because the AJ did not have a data cartridge and the aircraft's internal memory is a fraction of what the catridge can hold, so TERNAV is running entirely off of that instead of the onboard memory. I don't think anyone really cares if people can use the cartridge to program the CK 37 though, button punching for 10 mins before a mission is only for the biggest masochists. I don't think TERNAV can be restricted but those who are particularly eager for authenticity can turn it off themselves via the input panel.

 

As to why blue don't win When The Mountains Cry... I dunno, I feel like it's just because red tend to push out very aggressively on that mission. Most memories I have of playing it have been flying fighter sweeps across the entire AO, not just our lakes, and then turning back based on either the Tbilisi Hawk sites or my fuel state. By contrast, when I've played on blue, only the Viggens seem to push much beyond the 'frontline'.

 

The one current mission which I do think is a really hard deal for blue is Open Range. If you don't get at least 2-3 Viggens coordinating on ground targets it's basically unwinnable, Cherkessk factory and the water plant are both far too close to Minvody to push with A-10s or even bombed-up F-5s. Meanwhile, the only thing stopping red from steamrolling the mission in about 10-15 minutes is the total overcast it now has. I remember when it was clear weather, all we had to do was get the Su-25s to hit the FARP and send a flight of MiGs to S-24 the crap out of the blue rear area targets and that was it.

Edited September 22, 2021 by rossmum

[Sideburns]

5 hours ago, Raviar said:

The DCS AJS 37 cant do Air to Air against MiG-21 or MiG-19, or MiG-15... for that matter we can use F-5 in future F-4, and other Cold war era if added to DCS like F-105 ...
You might use it as Interceptor but thats not the AJS 37 role (as strike aircraft)! JA 37 was the one built for A/A role with different engine, different maneuverability, different radar ...

Although people can use it for Air to Air but forcing to use it as Ait to Air ONLY! probably its not a way for Viggen pilots in DCS and Coldwar server!

I myself fly F-5 in A/A mostly and Viggen in A/G mostly in cold war server 

 

Ahh, don't let the MiG / RedFOR Mafia lead you astray. The AJ in AJ37 stands for Attack - Jakt - Strike fighter, the AJ37 has a secondary fighter role. Appreciate the server views the AJS37's role differently though as the server was primarily made on the MiG21 vs F5e battle. Some interesting comments from a Viggen pilot to consider:

 

"In air-to-air combat the engine, RM8A, was more than likely to end up in engine stall if you even touched the throttle at some high AoA or altitudes. You could not pull more than 6 G and you had no audio warnings while at the same time the alpha meter and G meter were located ridiculously far away from each other in cockpit. You had to be aware of transonic speeds due to the steering system and so on... So, the AJS was less than a good airplane at air-to-air combat.

 

But if you were one of the rare old dogs who had done nothing more than been flying the AJS viggen for some twenty years, you could use the lower weight of the aircraft to your benefit. The AJS actually accelerated better than the JA at most altitudes and a good pilot could outturn the JA37. The sensitive steering system also makes it my choice in low level flying, where the AJS really excelled. Still, it had no gun... In air-to-air I would pick the JA37 at any time."

 

If you check out the turn rates for the MiG21, F5e and Viggen, well, the Viggen has some moves https://dcs.silver.ru/1,9,74,turnrate 

 

On 9/21/2021 at 6:48 AM, rossmum said:

Nobody was dogfighting with landing flaps because the flaps physically cannot deploy fully at the speeds people were dogfighting at. Even pulling to within a hair's breadth of a stall in AB at sea level will leave you too fast for the flaps to come down far enough to trip the SPS microswitches. This is the difference between actually testing things and studying the aircraft, and looking for any excuse to claim an advantage.

 

It might surprise you to know people do fight at stall speeds or below, and I observed a few that attempted deploying landings flaps (yes I was close enough to see that) with AB to suffer a surprise around the time of the SPS change. This is the difference between studying theory and doing practicals.

 

Also no need to claim an advantage in this situation, aircraft naturally have them in real life and we must work with and against them. Unfortunately we arrive at situations in DCS were bugs or misinterpretations of the aircraft can result in an unrealistic advantage a'la the Viggen speed bug, MiG21 radar bugs etc. The bugs are well documented as you are aware having been involved in many of the discussions and even claiming erroneously that the MiG21 radar range was legitimate as it had "always been that way" and "it was due to the pulse doppler radar". Hopefully we will still be alive by the time both Viggen and MiG21 bugs are addressed.

[Conker4]

On 9/22/2021 at 11:19 AM, Raviar said:

The DCS AJS 37 cant do Air to Air against MiG-21 or MiG-19, or MiG-15... for that matter we can use F-5 in future F-4, and other Cold war era if added to DCS like F-105 ...
You might use it as Interceptor but thats not the AJS 37 role (as strike aircraft)! JA 37 was the one built for A/A role with different engine, different maneuverability, different radar ...

Although people can use it for Air to Air but forcing to use it as Ait to Air ONLY! probably its not a way for Viggen pilots in DCS and Coldwar server!

I myself fly F-5 in A/A mostly and Viggen in A/G mostly in cold war server 

My point isnt that the AJS is an interceptor, although being a fighter is its secondary stated role, the point was, with the addition of pylon control, you can reasonably use it to allow for the simulation of the viggens early, and period correct, role of being an interceptor. This could be done by replacing some of the f5's as a main aircraft in the server. 

 

Personally I think the match of 2 red, high power, highly capable, frontline airframes from a main power vs the light power, capable export fighter, that was not meant as a front line fighter for capable powers at the time, is lacking. Due to this I will try and think of ways of reasonably implementing aircraft that I feel fit, and would make for a more dynamic and less predictable environment.

 

This dynamic environment can be more felt when playing blue, when merging it isnt, ah yes, a mig 21, lets do this pre defined tactic that I know will work, or enter a fight with confidence; before and in the merge you are trying to id the target and plane for the mainly 2 but possibly 3 types of fight you can have, not to mention if you get 2 aircraft of a different type. For red i feel you only have one eventuality to plan for with a rare second. There is no second guessing wether you should slow down before the merge to gain a position on a mach tucking viggen, no though of weighing the risks and if your wrong, leaving your self open to attack from a miss id'ed target. 

 

I just think with the addition of the viggen as a fighter replacing possibly 2 of the f5 slots or some f86 slots it would make for a more dynamic fight and would add another layer to the rock paper scissors. Red have a better turning plane along side a good all rounder and blue would have a good energy fighter with good instantanious turning along side the blues version of a mostly good allrounder. Both alternative main planes have significant benifits but also significant negatives to boot. 

 

@Alpenwolf hope you see the reason why im again asking for the viggen fighter again, due to the change of mission setup capabilities, i know i forward this thought alot.

 

Furthermore to the community, some food for thought for people who see the viggen as only a ground attack platform. Hopefully you can understand the reasons i feel playing red can get boring and repetative while also understanding the reasons that i, and i would argue, the likely reasons others opt to use the viggen as a fighter on blue.

 

 

The Mig 21 is a interceptor Kappa

Edited September 24, 2021 by Conker4

[rossmum]

5 hours ago, Sideburns said:

It might surprise you to know people do fight at stall speeds or below, and I observed a few that attempted deploying landings flaps (yes I was close enough to see that) with AB to suffer a surprise around the time of the SPS change. This is the difference between studying theory and doing practicals.

 

Also no need to claim an advantage in this situation, aircraft naturally have them in real life and we must work with and against them. Unfortunately we arrive at situations in DCS were bugs or misinterpretations of the aircraft can result in an unrealistic advantage a'la the Viggen speed bug, MiG21 radar bugs etc. The bugs are well documented as you are aware having been involved in many of the discussions and even claiming erroneously that the MiG21 radar range was legitimate as it had "always been that way" and "it was due to the pulse doppler radar". Hopefully we will still be alive by the time both Viggen and MiG21 bugs are addressed.

 

It might surprise you to know I fly the module a lot and I know what people do and don't do with it. I also know what it will and won't tolerate. The SPS triggers at 30 degrees of flap deflection. Takeoff is 25, landing is 45. The flaps will not drop below the 30 degree position until you are below 400km/h IAS, which (assuming you're in AB) is unlikely to happen without causing a severe departure first. I very much doubt you can visually tell the difference between 25 and 30 degrees of flap while in a dogfight, I sure can't and neither can anyone else I know. I am sure you'll find another way to try hint at your superiority here, but considering I both read up on how the system works and tested it ingame and have a fairly decent amount of time spent actually putting the theory and testing into practice, you're wasting your effort.

 

Where I have seen people get tripped up is when landing. Most people either don't drop flaps in combat, or only drop them to the takeoff position, and the advantage they offer is situational and something of a tradeoff, which you would know if you did actually do any real testing. You trade some airspeed and an incremental amount of turn rate for a slightly tighter radius. The flaps will allow you more margin of error in terms of low speed but will also reduce your margin between the initial wing rock developing and the departure. In short, they're no help to most people and a double-edged sword for anyone else. Full landing flap was never an advantage, because even before the AB inhibiting behaviour was added, they send your L/D straight to the bin and make recovery from a dangerous situation (as well as acceleration) far too slow.

 

As it is, the automatic retraction isn't modelled correctly for a bis, which I found out by asking a mechanic who worked on the things. They should retract in stages rather than proportional to airspeed, though in this case it wouldn't really make a difference anyway.

 

Save your gotcha posting for someone else, bud.

 

e/ Just to be completely clear here, we're still hung up on this mystical MiG landing flap business because you saw me questioning the Viggen's smaller turn radius without any penalty to turn rate with its flaps out like a year ago, right? You know, the thing I didn't even realise existed until I loaded the module up and tested it. That one. I don't remember you showing any interest at all in the 21's flaps until that moment, and I don't even remember the last time I saw you play in the server.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by rossmum

[Sideburns]

17 hours ago, rossmum said:

 

It might surprise you to know I fly the module a lot and I know what people do and don't do with it. I also know what it will and won't tolerate. The SPS triggers at 30 degrees of flap deflection. Takeoff is 25, landing is 45. The flaps will not drop below the 30 degree position until you are below 400km/h IAS, which (assuming you're in AB) is unlikely to happen without causing a severe departure first. I very much doubt you can visually tell the difference between 25 and 30 degrees of flap while in a dogfight, I sure can't and neither can anyone else I know. I am sure you'll find another way to try hint at your superiority here, but considering I both read up on how the system works and tested it ingame and have a fairly decent amount of time spent actually putting the theory and testing into practice, you're wasting your effort.

 

Where I have seen people get tripped up is when landing. Most people either don't drop flaps in combat, or only drop them to the takeoff position, and the advantage they offer is situational and something of a tradeoff, which you would know if you did actually do any real testing. You trade some airspeed and an incremental amount of turn rate for a slightly tighter radius. The flaps will allow you more margin of error in terms of low speed but will also reduce your margin between the initial wing rock developing and the departure. In short, they're no help to most people and a double-edged sword for anyone else. Full landing flap was never an advantage, because even before the AB inhibiting behaviour was added, they send your L/D straight to the bin and make recovery from a dangerous situation (as well as acceleration) far too slow.

 

As it is, the automatic retraction isn't modelled correctly for a bis, which I found out by asking a mechanic who worked on the things. They should retract in stages rather than proportional to airspeed, though in this case it wouldn't really make a difference anyway.

 

Save your gotcha posting for someone else, bud.

 

e/ Just to be completely clear here, we're still hung up on this mystical MiG landing flap business because you saw me questioning the Viggen's smaller turn radius without any penalty to turn rate with its flaps out like a year ago, right? You know, the thing I didn't even realise existed until I loaded the module up and tested it. That one. I don't remember you showing any interest at all in the 21's flaps until that moment, and I don't even remember the last time I saw you play in the server.

 

 

 

 

Lets be clear here indeed:

 

1) Comment on the new pylon ordinance selection feature as well as the various Mig21 and Viggen bugs not being fixed to help keep people informed and aware of the current situation.

2) Respond on how it was funny when the SPS feature was introduced some MiG21 pilots using landing flaps with AB during slow speed dogfights were caught unaware of this change and suffered.

3) Cue you getting involved to try to initially claim this is impossible "Even pulling to within a hair's breadth of a stall in AB at sea level will leave you too fast for the flaps to come down far enough to trip the SPS microswitches"*. Implying I don't fly the MiG21 or know what I'm talking about etc. Continued discussion from you mistakenly thinking I'm making out the SPS landing flap situation is an advantage? Some Viggen flap use comparison based on a discussion I vaguely recall. Once more trying to accuse bias, except I've submitted and supported bugs for blue and red planes to fix both advantageous and disadvantageous situations, fly all sides etc.

 

* The landing flaps are practically fully down at about 360-380kph. It is entirely possible for people to get into this speed range during a dogfight particularly in scissors / one circle or at the top of the energy egg. Whether or not they are an advantage is debatable and I would personally avoid flaps use during dogfighting in most jets, unless they are automatic.

 

I think you're the one hung up on this. Try not to take every comment involving the MiG21 so personally and also reading posts twice would probably help to avoid misunderstandings. The reason I'm not on DCS/CW infrequently is because I have other hobbies and groups I fly with, I'd recommend you also try some hobbies outside of DCS.

[rossmum]

It's adorable how well you play the "be patronising but not quite enough to ever break the forum rules" routine, but we both know exactly what's going on here. It's also a good thing I'm not the only one who remembers how all this started, unfortunately us "youtube streamers" who edit our footage tend to catch ingame chat on screen sometimes

[Miccara]

On 9/22/2021 at 4:36 AM, Alpenwolf said:

 

 

 

 

Must be on your end, I'm afraid. All single helipads are the same. Same static object.

 

 

 

 

Played it again, today. Same issue. Also watch another guy struggle on the number 1 spot for 15 minutes or so, until he moved to another spot. There is definitely something going on in that spot.

[Alpenwolf]

7 hours ago, Miccara said:

Played it again, today. Same issue. Also watch another guy struggle on the number 1 spot for 15 minutes or so, until he moved to another spot. There is definitely something going on in that spot.

 

You're talking about the start up procedure, mate. There's nothing in a FARP that has anything to do with it. Nevertheless, I'll delete the unit and put it back again and see if that fixes things. However, I'm not at my computer for a couple of more days. A bit busy, so bear with me, please.

[rossmum]

I seem to recall coming across a similar issue at some point but I wish I could remember how I got around it. I know for sure that there are some odd startup-related issues in the game though - for instance, spawning on one of the launch positions on the SC Kuznetsov and then turning your engines off will render them unable to restart, unless you turn your electrical system off before starting them. No idea what causes it, it's really weird. It seems to only happen on the front right position.

Spaghetti code problems, I guess

[Tavo89]

Hello everyone, will it be possible to remove radio channels with awacs that do not work? This to make communication more comfortable and direct by pressing LAlt + Q on the Mig-21.

 

LAlt+Q : awacs bogey dope.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Tavo89

[Tavo89]

The server is offline ?, I just updated DCS and it does not appear.

[=475FG= Dawger]

4 hours ago, Tavo89 said:

The server is offline ?, I just updated DCS and it does not appear.

That means the server has not been updated

[Miccara]

On 9/25/2021 at 5:20 AM, Alpenwolf said:

 

You're talking about the start up procedure, mate. There's nothing in a FARP that has anything to do with it. Nevertheless, I'll delete the unit and put it back again and see if that fixes things. However, I'm not at my computer for a couple of more days. A bit busy, so bear with me, please.

I found if you use the autostart procedure and don't turn anything else on, the Huey will start. I wonder if they have built in a low battery, cold start feature? All the spots suffer the same issue but will start under autostart.

[Tavo89]

2 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

That means the server has not been updated

 

Ok, thanks mate .

[Ian Boys UK]

Server still down

[=475FG= Dawger]

@AlpenwolfHas the server been updated? I actually answered this question myself. It has not been updated and is not visible if you are running the current OB 2.7.6.13436

Edited September 30, 2021 by =475FG= Dawger

[=475FG= Dawger]

The Cold War server is not "down". It has not been updated. It is visible in the server list accessible in your forum profile. I also rolled back my DCS install to the previous version and Cold War is visible in game on version 2.7.6.13133

 

You can roll back to this version to play in Cold War or wait until Alpenwolf updates to the current OB version (2.7.6.13436)

[Alpenwolf]

Sorry, guys, was away for a couple of days and monitoring the server during yesterday's flight was nigh impossible.

 

Server's updated and back online!

 

EDIT:

Helos have access to EWR now? Sweet!

Edited September 30, 2021 by Alpenwolf