Knife edge pass?

[Nealius]

I was curious if it's possible to do a knife edge pass in the Hornet. I tried it the other day with full opposite rudder, but for some reason I had zero rudder authority and the nose sank rather quickly. I recall having this issue in the Mirage 2000 a long time ago until that FM was updated, and now I can quite easily do a knife edge pass in the Mirage. Is it also possible in the Hornet or does the FCS not let the pilot add enough rudder to do it?

[strikerdg]

At higher air speeds rudder inputs are greatly restricted. Just a guess but try it at a slower speed? Not sure that a true knife edge is possible to maintain but maybe if you take out some Angle of bank.. the flight model is good but hopefully still in works. Nose authority seems too restricted in the sim as you should be able to hit much higher AOA by pulling straight back on the stick at slower air speeds.

[Nealius]

I may try one at around 350 and see what happens. In the Mirage I can do a perfect, VV on the horizon, 90° bank at around 425-450.

[Ala12Rv-watermanpc]

also try using differential thrust...

[Phil C6]

Hi for F15 and F18 i have the same question rudder is enough effective? or i do something wrong?

 

PS: in the 11-246v1.pdf for F15:

 

 

Table 4.14. F-15 Knife Edge Pass Parameters.

4.21.1. Maneuver Description: Enter the show line at 500 feet AGL and 400 knots. At 4,000 feet

prior to show center, raise the nose five to 10 degrees, establish a climb, and apply stick pressure to

roll 90 degrees toward the crowd. The aircraft is held in this position until 4,000 feet past show center.

Top rudder is applied to help hold the nose above the horizon so the full maneuver can be accomplished.

Forward stick pressure is applied to keep the aircraft on the show line and to maintain level

flight.

 

 

Best Regards

 

4.21.2. Abnormal Procedures: If entry parameters are not met, abort the maneuver, make a flat pass

and reposition for the next maneuver. If the nose falls below level flight (zero degrees pitch in the

HUD) or if the aircraft will descend below 400 feet AGL, abort the maneuver.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Phil C6

[Emmy]

Differential Thrust and raise the nose slightly before rolling so you fly a bit of a ballistic arc...

[SirJ]

not the root of the problem:

 

but try to fly a high speed low g radius at near 90° bank...

This way you can make sure not to drop the nose by increasing the load factor pulling into the turn. at high speeds it is easy to have the turn way above the runway...

From a ground point of view it looks like a realy knife edge pass

[Nealius]

Is the knife edge pass normally done with an arcing movement? In the Viper you can do in excess of 90 degrees bank and keep level flight throughout the maneuver. I've gotten pretty close to the same in the M2000 as well.

[Tiger-II]

I think the basic question is: is there the correct and sufficient rudder authority available?

 

I have issues with how it flies anyway, and the drag profile seems...off. It hits a wall around 670 kts which just doesn't feel right at all. Regardless of maximum speed in level flight, if you take any aircraft and point it at the ground at max power, you will overspeed to the point of structural failure. That is nearly impossible in the sim.

 

As I understand knife-edge passes in any fast jet, you need to pull the nose up slightly prior to entry. Asymmetric thrust is primarily used to hold the nose up (there is a move the Su-27 makes where it is famously in reheat on one engine, IIRC), along with rudder.

[Raven68]

Hi for F15 and F18 i have the same question rudder is enough effective? or i do something wrong?

 

PS: in the 11-246v1.pdf for F15:

 

 

Table 4.14. F-15 Knife Edge Pass Parameters.

4.21.1. Maneuver Description: Enter the show line at 500 feet AGL and 400 knots. At 4,000 feet

prior to show center, raise the nose five to 10 degrees, establish a climb, and apply stick pressure to

roll 90 degrees toward the crowd. The aircraft is held in this position until 4,000 feet past show center.

Top rudder is applied to help hold the nose above the horizon so the full maneuver can be accomplished.

Forward stick pressure is applied to keep the aircraft on the show line and to maintain level

flight.

 

 

Best Regards

 

4.21.2. Abnormal Procedures: If entry parameters are not met, abort the maneuver, make a flat pass

and reposition for the next maneuver. If the nose falls below level flight (zero degrees pitch in the

HUD) or if the aircraft will descend below 400 feet AGL, abort the maneuver.

 

Very nice post Phil! I hope the flight model is close enough to perform this. I will try it this evening myself as I too am curious about this.

[Strikeeagle345]

Is the knife edge pass normally done with an arcing movement? In the Viper you can do in excess of 90 degrees bank and keep level flight throughout the maneuver. I've gotten pretty close to the same in the M2000 as well.

 

yes, the hornets have always pitched up before rolling 90 deg for the knife edge. The F-16 has enough rudder authority to fly level, so the knife edge and maintain altitude.