Colt40Five Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 And about time too! http://www.kommersant.com/p-10456/Army_Helicopter/ [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Force_Feedback Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 So its not crap after all Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
hitman Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Yeah and Russia just got itself a new submarine class this week as well. Arctic Wind Class IIRC. Intel 13900k @ 5.8ghz | 64gb GSkill Trident Z | MSI z790 Meg ACE | Zotac RTX4090 | Asus 1000w psu | Slaw RX Viper 2 pedals | VPForce Rhino/VKB MCE Ultimate + STECS Mk2 MAX / Virpil MongoosT50+ MongoosT50CM | Virpil TCS+/ AH64D grip/custom AH64D TEDAC | Samsung Odyssey G9 + Odyssey Ark | Next Level Racing Flight Seat Pro | WinWing F-18 MIPS | No more VR for this pilot.
Aeroscout Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Cool... are the Ka-50s and 52s better than the Mi's in any way, kinda like that the Sus are to the MiGs (A MiG-29 is to a Mi-24 as an Su-27 is to a Ka-50?) DCS Wishlist: 1) FIX THE DAMN RIVERS!!! 2) Spherical or cylindrical panorama view projection. 3) Enhanced input options (action upon button release, etc). 4) Aircraft flight parameter dump upon exit (stick posn, attitude, rates, accel, control volume, control-surface positions, SAS bias, etc). 5) ADS-33 maneuver courses as static objects. 6) Exposed API or exports of trim position and stick force for custom controllers. 7) Select auto multiple audio devices
D-Scythe Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Cool... are the Ka-50s and 52s better than the Mi's in any way, kinda like that the Sus are to the MiGs (A MiG-29 is to a Mi-24 as an Su-27 is to a Ka-50?) Try Mi-28/N. The Mi-24 is old.
Aeroscout Posted April 15, 2007 Posted April 15, 2007 Ok, sorry, same basic helicopter though... the 28 has better stuff though... DCS Wishlist: 1) FIX THE DAMN RIVERS!!! 2) Spherical or cylindrical panorama view projection. 3) Enhanced input options (action upon button release, etc). 4) Aircraft flight parameter dump upon exit (stick posn, attitude, rates, accel, control volume, control-surface positions, SAS bias, etc). 5) ADS-33 maneuver courses as static objects. 6) Exposed API or exports of trim position and stick force for custom controllers. 7) Select auto multiple audio devices
sp0nge Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Maybe they are preparing for war :D Is breaking the laws of gravity illegal? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
hitman Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 You know...the past events thats been going on in the last 6 months has me wondering about why this is. I wonder what the russians are playing on tv at the moment... Intel 13900k @ 5.8ghz | 64gb GSkill Trident Z | MSI z790 Meg ACE | Zotac RTX4090 | Asus 1000w psu | Slaw RX Viper 2 pedals | VPForce Rhino/VKB MCE Ultimate + STECS Mk2 MAX / Virpil MongoosT50+ MongoosT50CM | Virpil TCS+/ AH64D grip/custom AH64D TEDAC | Samsung Odyssey G9 + Odyssey Ark | Next Level Racing Flight Seat Pro | WinWing F-18 MIPS | No more VR for this pilot.
EvilBivol-1 Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I don’t know… "dozens" of Ka-50s? The only official word on this matter was Sergey Ivanov's (Russian MoD) announcement on April 4th that the Arsenyev plant will be awarded contracts to upgrade in-service helicopters in addition to the recent (presumably the late 2006) order of new Ka-50s. No numbers were mentioned. The only official numbers came earlier in 2006, when it was announced that the defense procurement budged would include 12 new Ka-50/52 airframes (number per type unknown) through 2012. That would make what, two and a half airframes per year? An optimist would call this the return of the Black Shark. A realist would call this providing some cash flow and work for the firms involved. A pessimist would call this an opportunity for somebody to launder a few million dollars. Also, I don't believe any of the various single seat night-capable versions of the Ka-50 have gone beyond company prototype stage, so I would be surprized to see them entering service. The only night-capable Black Shark with a future is the Ka-52. On the other hand, there has been quite a buzz around the Ka-50/52 recently, so perhaps there are bigger plans. Here is the freshly repainted Ka-52 prototype: http://www.airforce.ru/photogallery/zinchuk/ka-52/page_03l.htm http://www.airforce.ru/photogallery/zinchuk/ka-52/page_04l.htm P.S. Mods, can we move this thread into "The Ka-50 Black Shark Thread" sticky, as the same news was reported there first, or vice versa. 1 - EB [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Nothing is easy. Everything takes much longer. The Parable of Jane's A-10 Forum Rules
D-Scythe Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Ok, sorry, same basic helicopter though... No, it's not.
MBot Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Does the Ka-50/52 offer any advantages over the Mi-28N for the use with the special forces or is it more of a deal to support Kamov ( perhaps for future developments ) ?
pappavis Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Yeah and Russia just got itself a new submarine class this week as well. Arctic Wind Class IIRC. nope, its the Borei-class http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B5_%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BA%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%B0_955_%C2%AB%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B9%C2%BB met vriendelijke groet, Михель "умный, спортсмен, комсомолетс" [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] [TABLE]SPECS: i9-9900K 32gigs RAM, Geforce 2070RTX, Creative XFi Fata1ity, TIR5, Valve Index & HP Reverb, HOTAS Warthog, Logitech G933 Headset, 10Tb storage.[/TABLE]
Kusch Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 http://www.pokazuha.ru/view/topic.cfm?key_or=757151&lenta_type=1&type=7 Give me "flying telephone pole" (SA-2)!
Force_Feedback Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 The borey class is good, maybe even on par with the Virginia, although I doubt it, and besides they have different roles anyway. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Shaman Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 http://www.airforce.ru/photogallery/zinchuk/ka-52/page_03l.htm http://www.airforce.ru/photogallery/zinchuk/ka-52/page_04l.htm Sweet! :wub: Anyone is up for LockOn's Ka-52 re-skin? :thumbup: 51PVO Founding member (DEC2007-) 100KIAP Founding member (DEC2018-) :: Shaman aka [100☭] Shamansky tail# 44 or 444 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] 100KIAP Regiment Early Warning & Control officer
britgliderpilot Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Does the Ka-50/52 offer any advantages over the Mi-28N for the use with the special forces or is it more of a deal to support Kamov ( perhaps for future developments ) ? Sure - when you paint it black it looks mean and terrifying instead of just ugly. It's a very important consideration for special forces :P Other than that . . . . yeah, suppose it's as much about keeping the chaps at Kamov going as anything else. Letting your defense contractors go bankrupt is hardly a sound tactic for maintaining a decent military future . . . http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/britgliderpilot/BS2Britgliderpilot-1.jpg
192nd_Erdem Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 They got tired of waiting for BS, and ordered the real deal then? Darn . . . will they lend me one of them? :(
GGTharos Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I think there's a little more to it than that. The Ka-50 is potentially well suited for 'special operations' which may take place at high altitudes for example. Its current weapon and avionics set is probably cheaper than the Mi-28's (just a wild guess on my part) and quite adequate for fighting limited conflicts. The Mi-28 can no doubt do all that, but probably at somewhat greater cost in one way or another - and without being able to match the high-altitude performance of the Ka-50. The Ka-50 also has some interesting weapons/navigation automation which the Mi-28 may or may not have. Sure - when you paint it black it looks mean and terrifying instead of just ugly. It's a very important consideration for special forces :P Other than that . . . . yeah, suppose it's as much about keeping the chaps at Kamov going as anything else. Letting your defense contractors go bankrupt is hardly a sound tactic for maintaining a decent military future . . . [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
ALDEGA Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Here is the freshly repainted Ka-52 prototype: http://www.airforce.ru/photogallery/zinchuk/ka-52/page_03l.htm http://www.airforce.ru/photogallery/zinchuk/ka-52/page_04l.htmSexy :D
Aeroscout Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 No, it's not. Ok, sorry, i ment same basic shape... :( 1 DCS Wishlist: 1) FIX THE DAMN RIVERS!!! 2) Spherical or cylindrical panorama view projection. 3) Enhanced input options (action upon button release, etc). 4) Aircraft flight parameter dump upon exit (stick posn, attitude, rates, accel, control volume, control-surface positions, SAS bias, etc). 5) ADS-33 maneuver courses as static objects. 6) Exposed API or exports of trim position and stick force for custom controllers. 7) Select auto multiple audio devices
Force_Feedback Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 Ok, sorry, i ment same basic shape... :( No it's not... Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Aeroscout Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 wow, i cant go right, can I... i'll leave this thread now... DCS Wishlist: 1) FIX THE DAMN RIVERS!!! 2) Spherical or cylindrical panorama view projection. 3) Enhanced input options (action upon button release, etc). 4) Aircraft flight parameter dump upon exit (stick posn, attitude, rates, accel, control volume, control-surface positions, SAS bias, etc). 5) ADS-33 maneuver courses as static objects. 6) Exposed API or exports of trim position and stick force for custom controllers. 7) Select auto multiple audio devices
RvETito Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I'm having really hard times while resisting to post few pages long post about Mi-28N vs. Ka-50/52 comparison. When it comes to helicopters, especially with Kamov involved I usualy flood the area:D The meaning of special operations is limited use of helicopters(3-4) vs small groups of terrorists in very complex terrain(high mountains with deep valeys). This imposes two requirements to the helicopter- high maneuvearbility and power efficiency(energy performance) and independant targeting capabilities. The coaxial rotor design of the Kamov helicopters leaves behind all kind of single rotor competition be it Mil or western built. The maneuvarability, easy controls along with tremendous rotor thrust available makes the Kamov most suitable for the task. This has been absolutely proved during the combat trials of the Ka-50 in Chenchnya in 1999-2000. However, those trials have shown the Kamov's weaknesses- the Shkval is meant to operate in the flat european landscape where it's stand-off range could be fully used. But for indipendant targets seek in complex terrain it has been almost useless- as been reported only 3 Vikhrs have been launched by the two Ka-50s during the entire operation, all three have been confirmed to hit their targets. The main weapons have been the S-8KO blast-fragmentation 80mm rockets and the gun. So the current Ka-50 has almost zero ability for a free hunt in mountain landscape especialy in night. AFAIK that's one of the reasons why the 52 has been developed. It should serve as a mini AWACS providing target data for 3-4 50s or attacking itself because it features the same weapons as the 50, even shown with other ordnance, which hawever hasn't been proved to be usable. So by 'dozens' I suppose they have meant 1 dozen. Because that actualy covers the initial info after the 28N won- they said that a short serie(12-15 pcs) of 50/52 mix(probable proportion 3:1 or 4:1) will be supplied for Spetznaz ops. But don't think that the road of the 28N is covered with roses. Not at all. I worked together with a Klimov design bureau representative last summer during TBO extension of Ka-32's gearboxes and I asked him a lot of things about this Mil/Kamov competition. I asked him about the 28's gearbox because I didn't actualy know who's making it. He said that it is a Mil design (all Kamov helicopters use Klimov gearboxes) and now after installing the more powerfull engines this gearbox has started to release chips(sign that you'll most probably have to replace it) after... 10 hours of operation. Which is a rediculous number for a single rotor helo. So they have huge problems with the main gearbox after they have installed the new VK-2500 engines and I haven't heard of any resolution of this problem nor any news about the serial production. What he also mentioned at the end was that like every military order in Russia the decision is first of all political. IMO the Ka-50/52 is more perspective than the Mi-28N and I'm sure the time will prove it. 1 "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
Anytime Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I'll bite, nice press release hehe. But I think Eurocopter would beg to differ :P This imposes two requirements to the helicopter- high maneuvearbility and power efficiency(energy performance) and independant targeting capabilities. The coaxial rotor design of the Kamov helicopters leaves behind all kind of single rotor competition be it Mil or western built.
MBot Posted April 16, 2007 Posted April 16, 2007 I'm having really hard times while resisting to post few pages long post about Mi-28N vs. Ka-50/52 comparison. When it comes to helicopters, especially with Kamov involved I usualy flood the area:D ... Very interesting AirTito. Don't hold it back, keep it coming :) Do you think that this gearbox problems of the Mi-28 will be eventually solved ( by installing a better gearbox *duh* ? ) or is it a inherent design flaw ? Also while putting aside the superior maneuverability of the Ka-50, is the Mi-28 itself a maneuverable helo compared to other heavy AHs ? To be honest I have quite some reservations about the Ka-50. The single seat concept of a attack helicopter wont really work out. Even with the great amount of automatisation, as long as the pilot has his head down in the Shkval screen nobody will scan the outside and keep SA high. Let alone maneuver while doing target scans. The Ka-52 sound a lot smarter. How is the flight performance of the -52 compared to the -50? I guess one of the big advantages the Mi-28 has is the canon that has a excellent field of fire and the fact that one crew member can solely concentrate on spotting and shooting. This might make up for a lot of missing maneuverability when engaging targets in mountainous terrain.
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