Best firing parameters for AIM-7?

[Nealius]

I just can't seem to hit anything at ranges beyond Sidewinder ranges, at which point I'd rather just use Sidewinders.

 

Here's my setup:

 

-AIM-7MH

-Typically low aspect, a couple thousand feet above the target

-Targets are unarmed QF-4s orbiting at 310KCAS, programmed for passive defense only

 

Results:

 

-low aspect shots beyond 6nm are always either kinematically defeated or notched (broke lock)

-low aspect shots within 6nm almost always hit

-medium aspect shots within 10nm usually hit, but longer time-to-target increases risk of dropping lock

 

Of the 20 or so Sparrows I've fired, only around 2 have hit their mark at ranges beyond 6nm, and still within 15nm. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I thought these were supposed to be BVR missiles.

[LazyBoot]

You don't mention what altitude you performed those tests at.

[backspace340]

How come you're dropping lock? In a bit of testing I was able to maintain lock on targets from 45nm out until missiles were hitting them at about 20nm (after being fired at around 35nm, from 40kft, M0.9).

 

If you're trying to crank, don't, the Hornet radar isn't capable of cranking without dropping lock almost every single time, see bug report here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3598068&postcount=176

 

You have to essentially keep the enemy in the middle of your HUD from firing till the TTG counter reaches 0. If you do that, you can get kills from long distance on passively defending targets.

Edited August 22, 2018 by backspace340

[Biggus]

BVR on a tail chase engagement is a big ask for any missile.

[Nealius]

Engagements between 20k-22k, no cranking, radar drops lock when the target dives and notches me once it realizes there's a missile on it, typically 10-15 seconds before impact.

 

Just did another shot. Head on, I'm at 25k he's at 17k, launch at 17nm, I keep him in the middle of the circle on my HUD after launch, he notches and I drop lock with 18 seconds to go before impact.

 

I'm used to AIM-120s hitting things even at low/0 aspect at the same altitudes, so AIM-7 tactics are hard to adjust to.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Nealius

[WindyTX]

I just can't seem to hit anything at ranges beyond Sidewinder ranges, at which point I'd rather just use Sidewinders.

 

Here's my setup:

 

-AIM-7MH

-Typically low aspect, a couple thousand feet above the target

-Targets are unarmed QF-4s orbiting at 310KCAS, programmed for passive defense only

 

Results:

 

-low aspect shots beyond 6nm are always either kinematically defeated or notched (broke lock)

-low aspect shots within 6nm almost always hit

-medium aspect shots within 10nm usually hit, but longer time-to-target increases risk of dropping lock

 

Of the 20 or so Sparrows I've fired, only around 2 have hit their mark at ranges beyond 6nm, and still within 15nm. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I thought these were supposed to be BVR missiles.

Actually those figures all sound about right. While a sparrow is a bvr missile when you shoot at timeout you should be well within visual range. They are from an era when A2A was always fun ( while training) cos you always got to see your target and often ended up in a visual merge.

 

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[Nealius]

Is it safe to say I'm just placing AIM-120-level BVR expectations onto a missile that was made when the definition of BVR was slightly different?

[Cik]

you are placing BVR expectations on missiles in DCS. even AMRAAM barely qualifies in current patch when visual is obtainable at pretty sane ranges (3-6 nm) which is actually great because it used to be really terrible and has improved greatly relatively recently.

 

 

it's perfectly capable of flying BVR distances, but often will not be BVR-capable because:

 

 

1. everyone flies on the deck like idiots all the time, depressing ranges

2. targets will often be cold(ish) which decreases range by at least 50%

3. if target is capable of maneuvering (has time and energy) and chaff, PK is approximately 0% at more than 5nm~

4: missile guidance logic preserves energy poorly, depressing ranges

 

 

also, "BVR" is one of those buzzwords that gets thrown around a lot (or did) like "all-aspect" in reality, it's a spectrum. is the AIM-9P5 "all-aspect"? it can be after you sacrifice a chicken, do a raindance, are at point blank range and the target is an afterburning SR-71 at mach 3. likewise, AIM-7 is "BVR" but less so than AIM-120B/C

[WindyTX]

Is it safe to say I'm just placing AIM-120-level BVR expectations onto a missile that was made when the definition of BVR was slightly different?

Beyond Visual Range literally means you can shoot BVR, as I kind of alluded to but it will not hit until after you are visual with a target.

 

As the previous post says the range of a missile is highly dependant on the velocity of closure and your constantly turning targets make life harder for the missile.

 

I guess active missiles are truly BVR in as much as once active you can turn cold and so the Target may never be within visual range.

 

DCS missile mechanics has recently improved and the latest updates have made them significantly better. I have actually had a 7MH hit from 27nm and a 120C hit from 33nm against a non manouvering target. I shot from 30k at 0.9 this is way better than it used to be. The Target was on a 180 aspect also high and fast , practically the best shot I could take ( except maybe going 1.4).

 

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[Banzaiib]

Beyond Visual Range literally means you can shoot BVR, as I kind of alluded to but it will not hit until after you are visual with a target.

 

As the previous post says the range of a missile is highly dependant on the velocity of closure and your constantly turning targets make life harder for the missile.

 

I guess active missiles are truly BVR in as much as once active you can turn cold and so the Target may never be within visual range.

 

DCS missile mechanics has recently improved and the latest updates have made them significantly better. I have actually had a 7MH hit from 27nm and a 120C hit from 33nm against a non manouvering target. I shot from 30k at 0.9 this is way better than it used to be. The Target was on a 180 aspect also high and fast , practically the best shot I could take ( except maybe going 1.4).

 

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk

 

Agreed. I hit a Mirage yesterday with an AIM-7M that was fired when he was 23 miles away and about 1000 kts closure rate. I was at 18k ft, he was around 23K. I did not think it was going to connect at all, but was just trying to get him to be defensive...i don't think he thought it was going to connect either, which is why he didn't react... it's a whole new world for the SARH only servers :)

[Svend_Dellepude]

I've had +25nm hits on AI as well with the 7MH.

What I do is: Climb above my opponent and launch, the i go below and try to stay below to avoid that my opponent can exploit the notchgate. Can't really say for sure that it works, but thats what I keep telling myself anyway. :)

[falcon_120]

Agreed. I hit a Mirage yesterday with an AIM-7M that was fired when he was 23 miles away and about 1000 kts closure rate. I was at 18k ft, he was around 23K. I did not think it was going to connect at all, but was just trying to get him to be defensive...i don't think he thought it was going to connect either, which is why he didn't react... it's a whole new world for the SARH only servers :)

 

It was on MP against human? That has to be a sweet feeling :)

[Banzaiib]

It was on MP against human? That has to be a sweet feeling :)

 

Yep. I was on the DDCS server... it's the only way to fly :)