grafspee Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 Don't forget that Hitler was the worst enemy of the German armed forces. His disastrous decisions greatly accelerated what was strategically inevitable anway, and made the disaster worse. As far as the air war is concerned, Galland's book "the first and the last" gives some good insight. On the other hand, when you read Pierre Clostermann's book "the great circus" you discover that it was by no means a piece of cake for the allied fighter pilots. like you said he accelerated things, not change. Lose for germany was inevitable regardles how good or bad german army was just russian manpower was enough to kill germany System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCuvier Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 like you said he accelerated things, not change. Lose for germany was inevitable regardles how good or bad german army was just russian manpower was enough to kill germany With all that in mind, I cannot get excited over the question whether this Mustang was more powerful than that Messerschmidt. I enjoy the game, I enjoy learning to fly these wonderful machines, and I enjoy the friendly discussions among people who in those days would have been enemies. LeCuvier Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grafspee Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 With all that in mind, I cannot get excited over the question whether this Mustang was more powerful than that Messerschmidt. I enjoy the game, I enjoy learning to fly these wonderful machines, and I enjoy the friendly discussions among people who in those days would have been enemies. mustang was much heavier aircraft thats for sure System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummingbird Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 like you said he accelerated things, not change. Lose for germany was inevitable regardles how good or bad german army was just russian manpower was enough to kill germany Without US involvement the USSR would've lost quite early. Russian manpower alone couldn't win the war, they had to equip said manpower as well, and that wouldn't have been possible without the US lend lease program. In short the USSR needed the production capacity of the US, whilst the US needed the manpower of the USSR. To qoute Georgy Zhukov: "Today [1963] some say the Allies didn't really help us ... But listen, one cannot deny that the Americans shipped over to us material without which we could not have equipped our armies held in reserve or been able to continue the war." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grafspee Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Without US involvement the USSR would've lost quite early. Russian manpower alone couldn't win the war, they had to equip said manpower as well, and that wouldn't have been possible without the US lend lease program. In short the USSR needed the production capacity of the US, whilst the US needed the manpower of the USSR. To qoute Georgy Zhukov: "Today [1963] some say the Allies didn't really help us ... But listen, one cannot deny that the Americans shipped over to us material without which we could not have equipped our armies held in reserve or been able to continue the war." every country did their share during WW2 even those wich disappeare at the begining System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 If the US had not entered the war, the brits would've been talking german today, that's for sure. Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCuvier Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 To qoute Georgy Zhukov: "Today [1963] some say the Allies didn't really help us ... But listen, one cannot deny that the Americans shipped over to us material without which we could not have equipped our armies held in reserve or been able to continue the war." Even without the US supplies, the red army would not have been defeated. Maybe neither side would have won. LeCuvier Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_sukebe Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 If the US had not entered the war, the brits would've been talking german today, that's for sure. And if the Brits hadn’t had the balls to stand up to Germany in 39’ and had given to the Germans the info gifted to the US with the Tizard mission, just what do you think the Germans would have done to the US once they’d finished off the Ruskis? System: 9700, 64GB DDR4, 2070S, NVME2, Rift S, Jetseat, Thrustmaster F18 grip, VPC T50 stick base and throttle, CH Throttle, MFG crosswinds, custom button box, Logitech G502 and Marble mouse. Server: i5 2500@3.9Ghz, 1080, 24GB DDR3, SSD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grafspee Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 i think topic drifted too much :P System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted April 11, 2019 ED Team Share Posted April 11, 2019 i think topic drifted too much :P Just a little ;) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Zach Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I don't mind. Sometimes it's nice to let the topic morph and flow. Hardware: T-50 Mongoose, VKB STECS, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, RTX 3090, Ryzen 7 5800X3D, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB Modules: AH-64D, Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, F-16C, F-15E, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8 Maps: Normandy, Nevada, Persian Gulf, Syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 And if the Brits hadn’t had the balls to stand up to Germany in 39’ and had given to the Germans the info gifted to the US with the Tizard mission, just what do you think the Germans would have done to the US once they’d finished off the Ruskis? Too many ifs, indeed.. But the worst part is that Churchill saved his own ass and let Stalin divide Europe by his own will, at Yalta. The 'red plague' still affects those nations who were forcefully 'freed' by the red army even 30 years after the communism 'died'.. and nobody paid for this.. Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grafspee Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) if you took the best P-51 pilot in the war and put him against the best 109 pilot. in the war? One on one. Who wins? depends on p-51 version and bf109 version :) if it was p-51d 67inHg vs bf109 k4 1.8 ATA with head one merge at 3000-5000m alt i think that bf109 would have upperhand in this it has not questionable far better turn ability better climb far better if the fight would take at 12000m alt with p-51 equiped with v-1650-3 engine out come could be difrent if we bypass human factor in this dogfight Edited April 12, 2019 by grafspee System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msalama Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 let Stalin divide Europe by his own will There was nothing the Western Allies could've done, apart from starting a new war against the Red Army. Stalin had boots on the ground everywhere in the Central Europe and those troops would've never left voluntarily. Certainly a tragedy and I'm not defending the USSR one bit, but this was the situation. What would you have done in Churchill's place I wonder? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grafspee Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 There was nothing the Western Allies could've done, apart from starting a new war against the Red Army. Stalin had boots on the ground everywhere in the Central Europe and those troops would've never left voluntarily. Certainly a tragedy and I'm not defending the USSR one bit, but this was the situation. What would you have done in Churchill's place I wonder? i think if war between USSR and allies would erupt USA would drop as many nukes as they could make on russia System specs: I7 14700KF, Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Elite, 64GB DDR4 3600MHz, Gigabyte RTX 4090,Win 11, 48" OLED LG TV + 42" LG LED monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeCuvier Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Guys, my fingers are itching to write some comments about the strategies and failures of the powers in the forties; but that is not the subject of this thread. Maybe somebody should start a dedcated thread on WWIi history and strategies. I'm not volunteering though. LeCuvier Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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