169th Dedicated - Externals

[Kuky]

I think I'm gonna stop talking about this... let me go back to the topic... as soon as I get LockOn reinstalled I'll probably be back to flying on 169th_Dedicated... :thumbup: I just dislike those externals :huh:

[Maciver]

If I know I'm getting blinked, I just spam anything I have in the general direction of the blinker. I don't care if I get a kill, but at least he has to go defensive. If he wants to ruin my gameplay, the least I can do is return the favor.

 

haha, good idea, im gonna do that next time. Funny stuff ruggbutt. :lol:

[Frostie]

I've seem some really strange things in some games but of course could never say for sure what and why it was happening... things like seeing a solid contact with no ECM use (that's at least what it looked like on the HUD) and yet, even at some 30-40km I could not get a lock on it... and that's not normal. Why I couldn't do this I don't know... but there are others who've had same experience.

This is most probably caused by notching , vertical climb or a straight dive, people are crying Blinkers at everybody they can't lock its RIDICULOUS, I have encountered plenty of contacts I couldn't lock even at visual range, but never once claimed them tobe cheating, I just ACKNOWLEDGED their supreme beaming skill.

I haven't seen genuine macro blinking for months.

 

You guys have created a monster , just like the printscreen one a while back where every guy that warps gets labelled a cheating print screener.

Come on stop the witch hunting and get on with getting your sorry asses pwned.:D

[Breakshot]

Well said Frostie!

[Ice]

Yup, I'm with Frostie.

[ericinexile]

I don't care if someone blinks. ECM blinking could be considered a rudimentary method of simulating the far more sophisticated pods used in RL. However, for my own improvement I would like to know when others are using it against me. A little flashing "E" in Tacview would be wonderful if such a thing is possible.

 

As for external views--they suck. Map views--they suck worse. AWACS--sucks most of all ;-)

 

Smokin' Hole

[D-Scythe]

This is most probably caused by notching , vertical climb or a straight dive, people are crying Blinkers at everybody they can't lock its RIDICULOUS, I have encountered plenty of contacts I couldn't lock even at visual range, but never once claimed them tobe cheating, I just ACKNOWLEDGED their supreme beaming skill.

 

Um, if the guy is beaming you, you wouldn't even have a contact to lock on your radar - he would completely disappear from your scope.

 

So...if you can see a guy on radar, but can't lock him...I can tell you it's not because the guy has "supreme beaming skill."

[Frostie]

Um, if the guy is beaming you, you wouldn't even have a contact to lock on your radar - he would completely disappear from your scope.

 

So...if you can see a guy on radar, but can't lock him...I can tell you it's not because the guy has "supreme beaming skill."

This is too obvious to bother posting , ofcourse you will eventually drop off scope after prolonged beam attempt.

But during the course of notching an incoming bandit you are stiil there but unlockable.

Go up against AI F-5's and you will see this everytime.IN LOMAC.

 

I don't claim to be gospel just throwing examples out which can be understood by the average joe.

[D-Scythe]

But during the course of notching an incoming bandit you are stiil there but unlockable.

 

Obviously you missed something obvious me thinks. If you can see a contact on your scope, you should be able to lock it - don't know what radar you're using.

 

You getting confused with IR perhaps?

[Frostie]

Obviously you missed something obvious me thinks. If you can see a contact on your scope, you should be able to lock it - don't know what radar you're using.

 

You getting confused with IR perhaps?

Obviously you are oblivious to the whole point were this has obviously stemed from which obviously has nothing to do with who knows the know, which im obviously wasting my time now in trying to explain that :

[monotonous drone]'in game you cannot lock some targets on your radar at a given time due to the state of the contacts aircraft AND not down to the fact that it (AI or human) is cheating with an ECM blink macro'

If beaming was the wrong word I apologise wholeheartedly.

[Kuky]

Actually Frostie, D-Scythe is right. What notching does it makes you invisible to the radar because of no rate of closure (positive or negative) in which case there would be no contact on the radar.

 

Having a solid contact on your radar for some time and not being able to lock him up can't be due to this. The only thing I can think of that it could be cause by other then ECM blinking is if you are very high and the target is low and due to terrain nose radar contact is there but not very strong hence you can't get a lock.

 

I can't say for certain why I and many others in my squad have seen this, and mind you, it only happened with few people, and those are people like using LOPED mods and what not else, which makes me thing if someone is willing to have a loudout of AIM-54's on the F-15 then I don't see any reason why the same person wouldn't make a macro for ECM blinking as obviouly that person is not about fair play and would like to use any exploit he can think of (no matter how ridicious).

 

So I'm sorry if it looks like I and some others are making a monster out of this, this whole story started in this thread by me saying to this new guy he should not make a macro for ECM blinking and I gave my reasons why, so I see no monster here... it was just a friendly note to him.

 

Like I said if I feel something dodgy is happening with someone on some servers or games, I will simply avoid them.

[D-Scythe]

Obviously you are oblivious to the whole point were this has obviously stemed from which obviously has nothing to do with who knows the know, which im obviously wasting my time now in trying to explain that...

 

The only thing I'm oblivious to is what you're trying to say. That is the first time I've read a sentence where "obviously" is used 4 times, "were" substitutes "where", "stemmed" is mis-spelt and the word "oblivious" is used with two "know"s.

 

[monotonous drone]'in game you cannot lock some targets on your radar at a given time due to the state of the contacts aircraft AND not down to the fact that it (AI or human) is cheating with an ECM blink macro'

 

I'm not saying you couldn't lock the guy because he was blinking. All I was that if you can see the contact on your scope, but you can't lock him, it's not because of beaming. If the guy was notching you he would disappear (or fade, in the case of fighters like the F-15) off your radar page.

[Mugatu]

Any body have tracks of blinkers in action?

[GGTharos]

I'm not saying you couldn't lock the guy because he was blinking. All I was that if you can see the contact on your scope, but you can't lock him, it's not because of beaming. If the guy was notching you he would disappear (or fade, in the case of fighters like the F-15) off your radar page.

 

LO's F-15 radar refreshes every 4 sec by default. Thatmeans from the moment that guy notches, you may have up to 4 sec to lock him up and ... immdiately lose contact, or just fail to lock up period.

[D-Scythe]

LO's F-15 radar refreshes every 4 sec by default. Thatmeans from the moment that guy notches, you may have up to 4 sec to lock him up and ... immdiately lose contact, or just fail to lock up period.

 

Pretty sure the contact would've already started to fade away and disappear by then, so you can place your TDC over the fading target, but won't be able to lock him.

[Kuky]

GGThaors, I rarely fly the F-15 online and I'm mostly in the MiG-29, anyway... the 4sec refresh rate is fair enough but that's if you leave it at default 120deg (I think it's 120) scan zone, but if you set it to 60deg like in Russian aircraft you get refreshed picture much quicker. This can eliminate your theory of contact being visible on the radar but not being able to lock on. I don't think anyone can make a head on aproach on you (so you can get this blip on the scope) then within 1sec he would be able to turn 90 on you and notch... and as you imagine it, in the 1-2 sec afterwards (before the target fades) you wuold try to lock it but you can't.

 

Preposterous idea :music_whistling:

 

I'll just add that I have seen this while I was flying the MiG-29... the contact was aproaching me within 40km for lot more then 4sec and it was solid on the scope all this time... and yet I could not lock him up.

 

You think that's normal?

[GGTharos]

I don't know. Was he at a lower altitude? I don't even recall if that has an effect in fact.

[Kuky]

Well to my recolection I think he was about medium... and so was I... but then again I could be wrong as I wasn't paying attention to this at the time... only the fact that I couldn't lock him up. I remember someone else saying on TS right after they had exact same thing and they couldn't lock him up either.

 

I think we should definitely test this a bit...

[GGTharos]

For sure. Could just even be a lagger. But you really need tracks or at least an ACMI to examine these cases.

[Xealot]

I flew on the 169th a couple of days ago and was chasing a guy around, I was at his 6 with a perfect radar lock for a long time and as soon as I fired a sarh at him, i lost my lock... every time...

I had to wait to get into ER range...

 

That was because of the ECM, right? It pretty much rendered all my radar missiles useless

[RvETito]

I'll just add that I have seen this while I was flying the MiG-29... the contact was aproaching me within 40km for lot more then 4sec and it was solid on the scope all this time... and yet I could not lock him up.

 

I'll confirm that. It has happened to me as well. Though only with the MiG, I can't recall such thing with the Flanker.

[Breakshot]

For whatever reasons, that is apart from ECM blinking. The inability to lock a "clear" contact because of unfavorable attitude/angle of the bandit is a feature of the game. To prove this like Frostie said, just fly against the AI, try to fly against some Mirages, I noticed that I sometimes couldnt lock them up under 10-15km with a clear contact on scope in a russian ac. Normally by simply changing the PRF rate you will be able to get a lock.

 

I cant say that I am aware of all the conditions on the F-15, but whats probably happening there is what GGTharos pointed out. Or, the target is simply in the process of turning cold and the radar just cant lock him up.

 

So, obviosly those who blame other things such as blinking probably do not have enogh experience with radar work in this game and are unaware of certain conditions, theory is one thing, but you gotta fly and see things for yourself. I can say for certain that no matter what others might think or say, this "phenomenon" does, and will happen time and time again. But those who feel like they must be flying in a "perfect" world where your radar should work like it should everytime are gravely mistaken. As a result, you guys scream out ECM blinker when things that you are unaware of happen.

 

 

Oh and btw any ECM blink would show a brief strobe, or the contact would actually blink on scope. It will not ever be a "solid" contact.

[HubMan]

I'll confirm that. It has happened to me as well. Though only with the MiG, I can't recall such thing with the Flanker.

+1

 

It happenes to me as well from time to time against the AI. :)

 

By the way, some real life radar used by fighters suffer the same limitation : tracking a target implies that they use phase monopulse (all pulses sent in the same direction) or amplitude monopulse technics (pulses sent with a slight angular / directionnal difference).

Amplitude monopulse radar will have a maximum tracking range inferior to their maximum detection range, because the beams are not exactly pointed forward, but slightly on the side, and thus, the emitted power is not as high as in the case of a phase monopulse radar where all the beams overlap and where tracking range is rougly equal to detection range :)

 

Sorry for my english and trying to explain shortly things that would perharps require a longer post :)

 

Hub.

 

PS : thanks Ice for removing the externals : trying to sneak in on A/G mission was impossible, and externals were really giving to much cues on the aicraft type / payload you were to fight against :)

[HubMan]

...try to fly against some Mirages, I noticed that I sometimes couldnt lock them up under 10-15km with a clear contact on scope in a russian ac.

...

At least something realistic in the mess of the ECM modelization in Lockon : french jammers are killers :P :pilotfly:

 

Hub.

 

PS : don't flame me : just kidding ;) Mirage 2000 in the game are not even fitted with jammers :D

[vistrel]

I'll confirm that. It has happened to me as well. Though only with the MiG, I can't recall such thing with the Flanker.

 

I think MIG has less powerfull radar than flanker.