designating targets for AUTO bombing mode

[Cik]

hey. it used to be that you could press sensor select fwd to designate targets on the ground (more specifically sensor select fwd --> TDC depress) however this no longer seems to work. was it changed or is there some new precondition to designation? i can't find anything on the net about how it's supposed to work now.

 

 

thx

[Blindman]

cannot do that anymore either. The diamond is jumping around like crazy. Maybe it got broken in a past update. As far as I understood, there will be an interactive lesson about bombing relesed today, so maybe it is fixed now.

[MrReynolds]

Until we have a targeting pod or A-G radar will auto bombing be accurate enough - even without the jumping designator?(Which I've had since day 1).

EDIT

lol - just seen the tutorial: Waypoint designation.

[greenmamba]

Using Auto mode with dump bombs is pointless especially the higher you go, winds etc etc ... Auto mode is nice for guided bombs I guess ... CCIP release is much more precise. What are your return of experience ?

[BarTzi]

hey. it used to be that you could press sensor select fwd to designate targets on the ground (more specifically sensor select fwd --> TDC depress) however this no longer seems to work. was it changed or is there some new precondition to designation? i can't find anything on the net about how it's supposed to work now.

 

 

thx

 

You mean the ball and chain? OFC it works.

[EPSNtheGATOR]

Using Auto mode with dump bombs is pointless especially the higher you go, winds etc etc ... Auto mode is nice for guided bombs I guess ... CCIP release is much more precise. What are your return of experience ?

 

 

It isn't pointless. First of all it's useful for tossing bombs. And with self designation you can for example designate AAA emplacement and destroy it quickly and easily from 10k-15k feet (haven't tried it higher) without putting yourself in a danger. I always play with some wind and it doesnt cause problems.

 

The only problem is that while tossing only mk83s work properly. With level delivery all bombs work more or less fine.

[greenmamba]

It isn't pointless. First of all it's useful for tossing bombs. And with self designation you can for example designate AAA emplacement and destroy it quickly and easily from 10k-15k feet (haven't tried it higher) without putting yourself in a danger. I always play with some wind and it doesnt cause problems.

 

The only problem is that while tossing only mk83s work properly. With level delivery all bombs work more or less fine.

 

How many G’s do you pull during the toss ? And what is your atltitude and speed for level release ? How much wind do you put ? Do you put winds at différents levels with different directions ?

 

And .... when you set the waypoint as target ... do you change the target elevation in the waypoint DATA page ? For example I wanted to target a factory and make au AUTO level release, I went into the data for the waypoint I assigned for my target and it showed 2000 m ... but In the mission editor it showed 121 feet ... so I changed that in the data page, changed meters to feet and set 121. But I still fall short .... i have much better results with CCIP.

Edited December 5, 2018 by greenmamba

[Cik]

You mean the ball and chain? OFC it works.

 

 

not for me. can you explain your method?

[ebabil]

hud slew is impossible for me, it is jumpy as hell

[Mover]

Using Auto mode with dump bombs is pointless especially the higher you go, winds etc etc ... Auto mode is nice for guided bombs I guess ... CCIP release is much more precise. What are your return of experience ?

 

In the real aircraft, most pilots I knew were AUTO bombers. CCIP was rarely used. Which is 180 out from the Viper. Most F-16 guys use CCIP for unguided bombs and CCRP for everything else.

[Anklebiter]

In the real aircraft, most pilots I knew were AUTO bombers. CCIP was rarely used. Which is 180 out from the Viper. Most F-16 guys use CCIP for unguided bombs and CCRP for everything else.

 

 

Interesting. Was that based on differences between the systems or just culture?

[Rescue]

(...)

 

And .... when you set the waypoint as target ... do you change the target elevation in the waypoint DATA page ? For example I wanted to target a factory and make au AUTO level release, I went into the data for the waypoint I assigned for my target and it showed 2000 m ... but In the mission editor it showed 121 feet ... so I changed that in the data page, changed meters to feet and set 121. But I still fall short .... i have much better results with CCIP.

 

Same here! It's magic to hit something with the AUTO Mode. Even with no Wind and not higher than 5000 feet and Mk83's, I still miss the Target (level flight).

[Mover]

Interesting. Was that based on differences between the systems or just culture?

 

I'm guessing culture. AUTO and CCRP aren't that much different between the two jets. The CCIP pipper is a lot better in the Viper IMO.

[greenmamba]

In the real aircraft, most pilots I knew were AUTO bombers. CCIP was rarely used. Which is 180 out from the Viper. Most F-16 guys use CCIP for unguided bombs and CCRP for everything else.

 

Hi Mover .... well i have only simulation experience with anything realted to fighter planes, but i also fly BMS an F-16 simulator and i guess my tendency to use CCIP comes from there.

 

I gotta train more in AUTO mode but i can´t hit anything when using the target as waypoint. I have more success with using the HUD as SOI and place the symbol on the target.

[SmokeyTheLung]

Same here! It's magic to hit something with the AUTO Mode. Even with no Wind and not higher than 5000 feet and Mk83's, I still miss the Target (level flight).

 

My guess is that only a particuarly low altitude delivery, with the aircraft level to the horizon and dumb bombs, will result in impressive accuracy in AUTO.

 

From what I’ve seen, real pilots appear to fly profiles in AUTO/CCRP modes that are pretty similar to what most of us sim flyers use for CCIP; some amount of dive, velocity vector held steady at a point on the ground beyond the target that also coincides with the bomb fall line. Basically exactly like a dive delivery in CCIP but just in a different mode. I think the level high altitude delivery is probably mostly used for guided stuff irl.

 

...this is conjecture mind you and I’d be happy to be corrected.

[greenmamba]

Same here! It's magic to hit something with the AUTO Mode. Even with no Wind and not higher than 5000 feet and Mk83's, I still miss the Target (level flight).

 

Magic is the word ... i am going to try some more.

[Mover]

My guess is that only a particuarly low altitude delivery, with the aircraft level to the horizon and dumb bombs, will result in impressive accuracy in AUTO.

 

From what I’ve seen, real pilots appear to fly profiles in AUTO/CCRP modes that are pretty similar to what most of us sim flyers use for CCIP; some amount of dive, velocity vector held steady at a point on the ground beyond the target that also coincides with the bomb fall line. Basically exactly like a dive delivery in CCIP but just in a different mode. I think the level high altitude delivery is probably mostly used for guided stuff irl.

 

...this is conjecture mind you and I’d be happy to be corrected.

 

Dropping level with unguided bombs is rare unless at low altitude. Are you guys doing 45s or 30s?

 

A basic diving delivery involves a roll-in point (RIP) distance, a "wire" and planned/min release altitudes. With the waypoint designated, you can refine it in the HUD.

[Cik]

as everyone seems to be ignoring the question in the OP, i will just ask here again:

 

 

so am i wrong in thinking that A/G mode, master arm on, sensor select forward, nose down to target, TDC depress should yield a correct designation (with no additional prerequisites)? the ball and chain never appears for me regardless of what i do and so AUTO is unusable in currentpatch.

[Blaze1]

In the real aircraft, most pilots I knew were AUTO bombers. CCIP was rarely used. Which is 180 out from the Viper. Most F-16 guys use CCIP for unguided bombs and CCRP for everything else.

 

I think the Viper technique may have been to designate in auto for reference, then switch to CCIP for precise aim. The same may be the case for the F-15E, as I seem to recall this being mentioned in the Smallwood book, transitioning from the diamond to CDIP.

[Mover]

I think the Viper technique may have been to designate in auto for reference, then switch to CCIP for precise aim. The same may be the case for the F-15E, as I seem to recall this being mentioned in the Smallwood book, transitioning from the diamond to CDIP.

 

No. The only time I ever designated with CCRP was to do diving GBU-12 deliveries (and in that case you stayed in CCRP). There's no reason to designate anything with a CCIP delivery.

[BarTzi]

as everyone seems to be ignoring the question in the OP, i will just ask here again:

 

 

so am i wrong in thinking that A/G mode, master arm on, sensor select forward, nose down to target, TDC depress should yield a correct designation (with no additional prerequisites)? the ball and chain never appears for me regardless of what i do and so AUTO is unusable in currentpatch.

 

 

Yes you are wrong :).

 

1. Master arm ON

2. A/G select

3. select a bomb and configure it to drop in AUTO.

4. HUD SOI (sensor select forward). Ball and chain should now appear.

5. WEAPON RELEASE (this will not release a bomb, but will designate a target. Use this or TDC depress).

Edited December 5, 2018 by BarTzi

[Mover]

Yes you are wrong :).

 

1. Master arm ON

2. A/G select

3. select a bomb and configure it to drop in AUTO.

4. HUD SOI (sensor select forward). Ball and chain should now appear.

5. WEAPON RELEASE (this will not release a bomb, but will designate a target. Use this instead of TDC depress).

 

If that is how you have it mapped, that is not realistic. The pickle button does not designate anything.

 

IIRC, with TDC to the HUD, you hit the pinky switch/NWS button to designate/undesignate.

[Blaze1]

No. The only time I ever designated with CCRP was to do diving GBU-12 deliveries (and in that case you stayed in CCRP). There's no reason to designate anything with a CCIP delivery.

 

Ignore me Mover. I'm recalling poorly an attack during ODS, where a 15E pilot transitioned from Auto (Loft) to CDIP because the former couldn't be completed.

[Frederf]

No. The only time I ever designated with CCRP was to do diving GBU-12 deliveries (and in that case you stayed in CCRP). There's no reason to designate anything with a CCIP delivery.

 

I've certainly seen several HUD tapes where the target approach and initial pull was in CCRP. Hands on select to CCIP was made once the target was in HUD. It makes all sorts of sense.

 

Like so,

 

I'm pretty sure that's what he means.

[Blaze1]

I've certainly seen several HUD tapes where the target approach and initial pull was in CCRP. Hands on select to CCIP was made once the target was in HUD. It makes all sorts of sense.

 

Like so,

 

I'm pretty sure that's what he means.

 

Hmmm.......So perhaps my memory is better than I thought ......... :)

 

Cheers for the vid Fred.:thumbup: