So many things wrong with this image!

[imacken]

See attached image from the 'Sitting on the Ramp' mission Hornet/PG.

This has always been for me the most demanding scenario in terms of performance in DCS.

However, I am totally mystified by quite a few aspects of this image. It shows Task Manager, fpsVR and the Hornet with Kegetys VR mod.

Main points:

1) the fps is 23

2) GPU usage is 35% (and only 47 degrees)

3) CPU usage is around 30% for the DCS logical processor which is 11

4) reprojection rate is almost 70%!

5) the mask from Kegetys mod is only showing on the left hand side.

I cannot make any sense of this when you put all these together.

Many questions, but, the main one is why am I seeing 23fps when there is no stress at all on the CPU or GPU?

[toutenglisse]

;) because static Lot20 hornets in plain sight.

 

Edit this mission and replace honets Lot20 by old hornet (just F/A-18c in the list of statics, non Lot20) and usages will become logical relative to fps.

 

This is zero explanation… just a finding…

 

EDIT : here a little monitoring of the difference :

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3697213&postcount=16

Edited December 24, 2018 by toutenglisse

[imacken]

Thanks for that.

It’s not the FPS I am concerned about as I know about the static Hornet issue. My main question, as I said above, is why the GPU/CPU are unstressed with a load of headroom, yet the FPS is only 23.

Doesn’t make any sense, to me anyway.

[Supmua]

So many things wrong with this image!

 

That’s why I don’t play in VR much these days. Would rather have smooth and high FPS with high visual fidelity and shadows than stuttering mess. These issues also affect nonVR btw, FPS still tanks in these scenarios but mine still stays above 60, up in the air I can get up to 140+ which is awesome. DCS looks really good when you manually increase high shadows to 2x in lua file.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[imacken]

That’s why I don’t play in VR much these days. Would rather have smooth and high FPS with high visual fidelity and shadows than stuttering mess. These issues also affect nonVR btw, FPS still tanks in these scenarios but mine still stays above 60, up in the air I can get up to 140+ which is awesome. DCS looks really good when you manually increase high shadows to 2x in lua file.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Please see my previous post. It’s not the low fps I’m asking about!

[RED]

CPU usage with 4 cores shown in Taskmanager:

dcs using mainly only one core plus some other stuff:

 

100% / 4 + 5% =30%

 

The more educated people will be able to give you a more detailed answer. You have one core running at 100%.

[Precog]

5) because only the left eye image is being shown on screen

[Supmua]

Were you tracking avg CPU GPU usage or instant peak. The peak GPU usage can spike above 90% in my case but will drop quickly unless I’m flying low in a very congested area. As for CPU a single core/thread can hit >90% but if you have multiple cores the display avg will be much lower so use tracking app that shows individual cores instead.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[imacken]

CPU usage with 4 cores shown in Taskmanager:

dcs using mainly only one core plus some other stuff:

 

100% / 4 + 5% =30%

 

The more educated people will be able to give you a more detailed answer. You have one core running at 100%.

I don’t have one core running at 100%. (Look at the TM graphic). If I did I could understand what was going on!

If you guys look at the image, there is fps of 23, GPU usage of 35% and the max one core CPU usage of 30%. That is the issue. Why is there 23fps with no stress on GPU or CPU?

[imacken]

Were you tracking avg CPU GPU usage or instant peak. The peak GPU usage can spike above 90% in my case but will drop quickly unless I’m flying low in a very congested area. As for CPU a single core/thread can hit >90% but if you have multiple cores the display avg will be much lower so use tracking app that shows individual cores instead.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

The tracking app - fpsVR - and TM in my original image are showing individual core data.

[Precog]

My understanding is that even though it might be single-threaded, the workload is still shared between the cores. So if the the CPU is at 100% and you have 4 cores, then it will show as 25% each

[imacken]

My understanding is that even though it might be single-threaded, the workload is still shared between the cores. So if the the CPU is at 100% and you have 4 cores, then it will show as 25% each

 

Sorry, but I don't think that is the case. In 2D DCS, the logical processor (CPU11) is always around 95-100%, and I get great frame rates. In VR as shown in my original attachment, in this particular case, I am getting 23fps with only about 30% CPU on the logical processor 11 which DCS uses. My GPU is also, only showing 35% usage.

All I want to know, is why this is happening. Why is there 23 fps when there is a load of headroom on both CPU and GPU in VR.

Someone must be able to explain this, or, there is something wrong with the way VR is modelled in DCS.

[toutenglisse]

The explanation that 4 cores at 25% usage each means 100% on 1 core if DCS rendering thread was not bounced, would also mean that your CPU couldn't go higher than that. But it does.

With VR and nevada with actual 2.5.4, my 4 cores (HyperThreading off) are usually at more than 50% each consistantly. (lower with caucasus because with same settings the GPU has more load in this map).

 

imacken the root of the "low gpu/cpu usage" behaviour (in the case you show) is the static hornet Lot20 being rendered to your camera.

For a reason we can't monitor, this specific static unit creates a limitation (undetermined) that prevent system to output more FPS (despite the big room we have in cpu/gpu usage).

As soon as static Lot20 are no more rendered the usages and fps become "logical" again.

 

Having a real explanation about this is likely to not happend I think (but as long as we have workaround waiting for a fix I think it's OK - easy to replace static units if upset by this issue)

[imacken]

The explanation that 4 cores at 25% usage each means 100% on 1 core if DCS rendering thread was not bounced, would also mean that your CPU couldn't go higher than that. But it does.

With VR and nevada with actual 2.5.4, my 4 cores (HyperThreading off) are usually at more than 50% each consistantly. (lower with caucasus because with same settings the GPU has more load in this map).

 

imacken the root of the "low gpu/cpu usage" behaviour (in the case you show) is the static hornet Lot20 being rendered to your camera.

For a reason we can't monitor, this specific static unit creates a limitation (undetermined) that prevent system to output more FPS (despite the big room we have in cpu/gpu usage).

As soon as static Lot20 are no more rendered the usages and fps become "logical" again.

 

Having a real explanation about this is likely to not happend I think (but as long as we have workaround waiting for a fix I think it's OK - easy to replace static units if upset by this issue)

Thanks for that, but as I said earlier here, I'm only taking that Hornet Lot 20 as an example. Here is the same scene in 2D. Note the 90+% in CPU 11. (I limit fps to 58 for Gsync purposes.)

I'll post a non Hornet Lot 20 later to demonstrate what I mean.

[imacken]

Here's a Spitfire on the ramp in The Big Show campaign. Same pattern as Hornet. Low fps with no stress on GPU or CPU.

[unknown]

Thanks for that, but as I said earlier here, I'm only taking that Hornet Lot 20 as an example. Here is the same scene in 2D. Note the 90+% in CPU 11. (I limit fps to 58 for Gsync purposes.)

I'll post a non Hornet Lot 20 later to demonstrate what I mean.

 

If this only happens in VR for you it's most likely that DCS is calling a function(DCS VR function or VR driver related or OS function....) that needs a lot of time to process/answer and thats why your CPU/GPU is "idling". They are waiting for that "answer" to continue their work. But i don't think this is some heavy processing related function, could be just a "status" input from your VR Hardware the game needs but it's only polled with a low rate hence the low CPU/GPU usage.

 

This is all guesswork because i don't have any VR HW.

[toutenglisse]

Yes I see you have similar issue with other conditions. I don't experience that because we don't have same VR and same maps/modules (with caucasus and NTTR I only see low usages with static Lot20 and very bad weathers with précipitations).

 

BTW I've seen several posts about vive HTC/HTC pro where gents say they are often pegged at 30 fps with low usages.

Could you try same Spit ramp start Normandy, but with motion smoothing OFF (just for test, it can't be a viable option of course) because it's maybe in relation ? :

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3735641&postcount=52

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3728853&highlight=30+fps+VR#post3728853

[imacken]

Yes I see you have similar issue with other conditions. I don't experience that because we don't have same VR and same maps/modules (with caucasus and NTTR I only see low usages with static Lot20 and very bad weathers with précipitations).

 

BTW I've seen several posts about vive HTC/HTC pro where gents say they are often pegged at 30 fps with low usages.

Could you try same Spit ramp start Normandy, but with motion smoothing OFF (just for test, it can't be a viable option of course) because it's maybe in relation ? :

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3735641&postcount=52

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3728853&highlight=30+fps+VR#post3728853

 

Thanks again for your contribution.

I tried Spit on the ramp in Normandy, and no, I don't have a 30 fps lock. All quite normal, but still CPU/GPU usage way below max. See attached.

What I don't get here, is that surely with all this poor usage of CPU/GPU in VR, we could be getting way more fps if this was sorted out.

[toutenglisse]

If I understand well : with motion smoothing on you have mostly 30 fps (fpsVR says 32.9 fps average), and with motion smoothing off you have mostly 45 fps (fpsVR says 45.6 average).

 

It seems normal if there is still a reprojection process running ? (steamVR ?)

45 fps with reprojection (so 90 fps in the vive) with 60% gpu load is normal - would mean that you'll be ok (still 45) if scene becomes more intensive (with higher gpu load), or that you can increase details/range/Pixel density to load the gpu (for exemple, or you could reduce them to achieve 90 fps).

 

If you have no reprojection running while motion smoothing is off and you are "capped" at 45 fps with 60% gpu load, that is not understandable (something bugs, like with static Lot20 hornets).

 

I use always same settings between caucasus and nevada, and the most stressfull for my rig is campaign mission in Ka50 in caucasus (actually georgian oil war) - lot of units and big action on the tree line. There my gpu load is this : (mostly max and fps are 45+ASW with lots of small dents)

 

[ATTACH]201081[/ATTACH]

 

In this situation I could decrease a bit something, and being stable at 45 fps with lower gpu load.

But I'm just saying that fully using gpu in DCS vr is sadly easy.

[imacken]

If I understand well : with motion smoothing on you have mostly 30 fps (fpsVR says 32.9 fps average), and with motion smoothing off you have mostly 45 fps (fpsVR says 45.6 average).

 

It seems normal if there is still a reprojection process running ? (steamVR ?)

45 fps with reprojection (so 90 fps in the vive) with 60% gpu load is normal - would mean that you'll be ok (still 45) if scene becomes more intensive (with higher gpu load), or that you can increase details/range/Pixel density to load the gpu (for exemple, or you could reduce them to achieve 90 fps).

Thanks again. Sorry, I have confused the situation as I misunderstood what you were previously asking! The 2 Spit previous attachments were different scenarios. I have attached 2 more. First is with MS, and the other is without MS. In general, with MS the fps never goes below 30, but without, it does when under stress.

 

If you have no reprojection running while motion smoothing is off and you are "capped" at 45 fps with 60% gpu load, that is not understandable (something bugs, like with static Lot20 hornets).

Reprojection is always running I think. Can't see how to turn it off in SteamVR.

[toutenglisse]

Arf … those numbers are painfull to see. Low usage of gpu caused by something user or hardware can't manage… maybe related to map's tech (?) or mission complexity.

 

I've just checked steamVR and menu is different, before it was possible to tick/untick asynchronous and interleaved reprojection. Now no more options about that.

[imacken]

Arf … those numbers are painfull to see. Low usage of gpu caused by something user or hardware can't manage… maybe related to map's tech (?) or mission complexity.

 

I've just checked steamVR and menu is different, before it was possible to tick/untick asynchronous and interleaved reprojection. Now no more options about that.

 

Exactly! That's what I've been trying to say all along. There is something not right about the way VR is being modelled here, if low fps is showing when there is a huge amount of headroom left in the GPU/CPU, it can't be right.

I chose the Big Shoot Spit Campaign and the Hornet 'Ready on the Ramp' as they are the 2 best examples of low fps when on the ground.

I think this is something I'm going to raise with ED in a support ticket and see what they say.

 

Re SteamVR, yes they removed the options as - apparently - people were confused about how to use them when they were there!

[davidp57]

I can't help much, I just bought an Oculus 5 days ago ;)

 

But about setting reprojection in SteamVR, you could use Advanced Settings VR : https://github.com/matzman666/OpenVR-AdvancedSettings

[imacken]

I can't help much, I just bought an Oculus 5 days ago ;)

 

But about setting reprojection in SteamVR, you could use Advanced Settings VR : https://github.com/matzman666/OpenVR-AdvancedSettings

 

Thanks for that. I tried that some time ago, but I think I joined the 'confused' brigade as I couldn't work out what the options were actually doing!

Even though I switched off everything to do with reprojection (or so I thought), I was still getting it happening.

I'll maybe give it another go.

[imacken]

OK, so I tried Advanced Settings VR again, and no matter what I set in the options there, reprojections always happen.