Close Formation

[dresoccer4]

quick question: flying mission 5. is there a way to get my wingman in closer? i requested close formation and this was how close (far) he got. what is the normal formation separation on a two-man ship?

[Emmy]

Wedge is generally flown with 1 to 1.5nm spacing.

[dresoccer4]

Wedge is generally flown with 1 to 1.5nm spacing.

 

hmm, i guess that's right then. is there a formation that gets him closer? i want to be able to do sign language and have him understand it

[Emmy]

Echelon and Finger Four are the two formations where AI can be sucked in tight(ish)

[dresoccer4]

Echelon and Finger Four are the two formations where AI can be sucked in tight(ish)

 

awesome, thanks

[baltic_dragon]

I think Finger Four will work best. Echelon needs the Close Group formation, which for A-10C can only be added at ME level.

[Fisherman82]

What is the "real life" way of flying with a wingman at low level through canyons for example? Is it to use the finger four to suck the wingman in tight or to send him back in trail formation? How do Tornados do it for example? Hope this is not to off topic..

 

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[baltic_dragon]

My gut feeling would be to use trail - which would be much safer and left room for manoeuvre for both the lead and wingman. I am sure there are some procedures and rules, also depending on what you are doing.

[Yurgon]

What is the "real life" way of flying with a wingman at low level through canyons for example? Is it to use the finger four to suck the wingman in tight or to send him back in trail formation? How do Tornados do it for example? Hope this is not to off topic..

 

Finger Four, hell no!

 

In Finger Four (and some other formations), the wingmen are supposed to hold a very specific sight picture. Basically, it looks good to the outside world, and with relatively close formations, pilots can give hand-signals to each other. But this is missing all the flexibility for combat and for low level flying. Wingmen have to put way too much focus on station keeping to be able to work their systems effectively.

 

For low level flying with lots of maneuvering, I believe fighting wing or combat trail would be well suited, as these are tactical formations that allow the wingmen to maneuver on their own and give them a lot of leeway.

 

In DCS, this works well with the "Trail" formation. In fact, not just in The Enemy Within, I usually send my flight to trail formation as soon as fighting starts or even just when I get close to the first objective waypoint. In other formations, including Wedge, the AI wingmen love to crash into mountains or do other stupid stuff. When they're in trail, at least I don't have to watch them commit the aerial atrocities that they perform all the time. But it turns out that they really are less suicidal in this formation as well. :D

 

In Multiplayer and with human wingmen, I might opt for other formations as well, but humans are usually quite keen on not crashing, so even if I do something stupid as a lead, they'll typically stay alive first and yell at me later (also known as "mutual support"). :smartass:

Edited February 15, 2019 by Yurgon

[dresoccer4]

Finger Four, hell no!

 

In Finger Four (and some other formations), the wingmen are supposed to hold a very specific sight picture. Basically, it looks good to the outside world, and with relatively close formations, pilots can give hand-signals to each other. But this is missing all the flexibility for combat and for low level flying. Wingmen have to put way too much focus on station keeping to be able to work their systems effectively.

 

For low level flying with lots of maneuvering, I believe fighting wing or combat trail would be well suited, as these are tactical formations that allow the wingmen to maneuver on their own and give them a lot of leeway.

 

In DCS, this works well with the "Trail" formation. In fact, not just in The Enemy Within, I usually send my flight to trail formation as soon as fighting starts or even just when I get close to the first objective waypoint. In other formations, including Wedge, the AI wingmen love to crash into mountains or do other stupid stuff. When they're in trail, at least I don't have to watch them commit the aerial atrocities that they perform all the time. But it turns out that they really are less suicidal in this formation as well. :D

 

In Multiplayer and with human wingmen, I might opt for other formations as well, but humans are usually quite keen on not crashing, so even if I do something stupid as a lead, they'll typically stay alive first and yell at me later (also known as "mutual support"). :smartass:

 

good info :thumbup:

[Emmy]

What is the "real life" way of flying with a wingman at low level through canyons for example? Is it to use the finger four to suck the wingman in tight or to send him back in trail formation? How do Tornados do it for example? Hope this is not to off topic..

 

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Fighting Wing is the right choice but unfortunately that’s not a choice in DCS. As a Plan B, I suggest Wedge at the widest possible spacing.

[Supmua]

I have had bad results with close formations, especially with TEW 3.0 where my wingman would eject due to clipping or running into things. Then I would run out of ammo to take out hostiles and it's game over. Mission 4 really taught me to play safe with flying and conserve ammo. Each game over is costly since it would take 1.5-2 hours to redo a mission, lol. The campaign has been a blast otherwise and I don't mind repeating those missions so I could become a better pilot.

Edited February 23, 2019 by Supmua

[schurem]

I anchor the wingman when I want to do valley fighting, and give him go orders as neccesary. That way he's doing his own thing and only has to try formation flying again when the fights' over.