[CHECKING] Radar antenna elevation axis must be absolute or centering mech be added

[Captain Slow]

Not sure where to post this, but I find it to be quite a problematic situation.

Right now it is not possible to in any reliable way center your radar antenna elevation.

 

I'll let you decide if this should be a feature request or not. For me it is an actual problem since the aircraft currently lacks means to center elevation. (The only way right now to get close to it is to set 1B scan and use the elevation angle caret, but this procedure slow and unreliable)

 

Issue present at: 2019-02-24 1740Z

Version: Open Beta 2.5.4.27314

 

Problem 1:

You cannot bind a joystick/throttle axis (like a fixed range rotator or slider) to it because the sim treats the antenna elevation input as a relative input - and therefor you cannot center it. (any position of physical axis off center will yield continous elevation change in the sim).

 

 

Problem 2:

Using buttons for up down isn't much better either, because there is no button available for antenna centering.

 

 

Proposed solution:

step 1: Replace the existing elevation axis implementation OR add an additional axis for absolute input control

step 2: Add centering button for us that use buttons for elevation control

Edited February 24, 2019 by Captain Slow

[NineLine]

When Wags gets back I will talk to him if there is any sort of center function in the real thing. I am guessing no, or its still WIP.

[Anonymous User]

The current state is accurate, as long as the user has an axis that is spring loaded to center itself, just like the elevation control on the real thing. (Unlike the F16 for example)

I’m unaware of any publicly available HOTAS products that have such an axis..even the Throttletek version is incorrect.

[Svend_Dellepude]

What does the reset OSB on the radar MFD do?

[Deano87]

Absolute mapping would be seriously appreciated considering no current hardware can replicate how its done IRL.

[Terrificfool]

In regards to the OPs issue about how to center the antenna elevation: The antenna elevation is centered when the altitude readouts on the TDC are equidistant from your own altitude. No need to switch to 1B scan and use the caret, simply adjust your elevation until the altitude volume is centered around your altitude. This can be done with the increase and decrease antenna elevation keybindings without requiring a separate button to center the elevation.

[Svend_Dellepude]

I think people (myself included) just find it odd that you have to spend precious time centering the radar with a relative axis system when there could just be a button that would do the same.

 

If I was an engineer i would build a button into the elevation control itself that would do that.

[Captain Slow]

In regards to the OPs issue about how to center the antenna elevation: The antenna elevation is centered when the altitude readouts on the TDC are equidistant from your own altitude. No need to switch to 1B scan and use the caret, simply adjust your elevation until the altitude volume is centered around your altitude. This can be done with the increase and decrease antenna elevation keybindings without requiring a separate button to center the elevation.

 

This isn't really any better (been using this method as well). You still have to check your alt and then fiddle around with up/down elevation. I think the most important thing is the fact that no current consumer joystick hardware has the ability to center it, axis or buttons.

 

Absolute axis mapping would solve this (as implemented in the FC aircraft for example, and BMS for that matter as well). Preferably also provide a centering button so that people without axis can play reasonably well.

 

But right now no sliders or fixed range rotators do the trick

[Captain Slow]

The current state is accurate, as long as the user has an axis that is spring loaded to center itself, just like the elevation control on the real thing. (Unlike the F16 for example)

I’m unaware of any publicly available HOTAS products that have such an axis..even the Throttletek version is incorrect.

 

 

Re-read your message and I get what you mean now.

 

This implies even the real thing cannot center the scan?

 

Even if your inputs return to zero (for example spring loaded) the in-game elevation will stay at whatever offset it was at when you let go of the axis. This is because the in game axis is relative.

Edited February 25, 2019 by Captain Slow

[Kapsu]

This implies even the real thing cannot center the scan?

 

Even if your inputs return to zero (for example spring loaded) the in-game elevation will stay at whatever offset it was at when you let go of the axis. This is because the in game axis is relative.

As far as i know no, it won't center the antenna elevation in the real thing neither when there is no input. That would be rather stupid anyway since pilot would have to hold the antenna elevation control all the time when scanning below or above ownship altitude.

 

Personally i don't find it problematic at all to use key bindings (hat switch on HOTAS on my setup) for antenna elevation, most of the time i watch altitude bracket on TDC and adjust antenna elevation to scan certain altitude range anyway. If i want to center antenna elevation i just place the antenna angle caret roughly at the center, with 4 bar scan it doesn't really matter if it's exactly at the center or not.

[WildBillKelsoe]

I think the axis for elevation control is meant to be used on a Leo bonder or a separate axes/buttons controller.

[Svend_Dellepude]

There are a few F-18 pilots IRL on these forums, they could easily answer this, but maybe they are not allowed.

[Anonymous User]

I have already answered on the previous page. Current implementation is accurate; although I’m lucky enough to have a real HOTAS setup, with a spring-centered elevation control.

By ‘centering’ the beam, do you mean have it split equally above and below the horizon automatically? Because that is not a thing. IRL the pilot maintains the elevation for a certain AOR, set at the CCR. (Area of responsibility/cursor coordination range). This allows proper sanitisation of airspace by a formation.

As the elevation wheel is displaced (and held there) the elevation continues to adjust, the speed at which is dependent on the amount of displacement, and as soon as it’s released will remain there, until the elevation wheel is displaced again.

 

Intuitive once you’re used to it, and have the correct hardware.

Edited February 26, 2019 by Anonymous User

[Rennes]

Correct hardware is the key. As far as I know, none of the currently commercially available hardware have this capability, certainly not the major ones. ED has made things available in the past that is not real world correct in order to accommodate hardware limitations. This seems to be an appropriate case for such an accommodation.

[Captain Slow]

Correct hardware is the key. As far as I know, none of the currently commercially available hardware have this capability, certainly not the major ones. ED has made things available in the past that is not real world correct in order to accommodate hardware limitations. This seems to be an appropriate case for such an accommodation.

 

 

This. And would still be good to know if there was any way in the real plane to center

[al531246]

Taken from the Super Hornet's NATOPS but the throttle functionality is identical bar the dispense switch.

1.16

Edited March 4, 2019 by NineLine
Removed 1.16

[Rennes]

but the throttle functionality is identical

 

Where are you getting that information? It seems to be different that was every actual Hornet pilot has said on here.

[al531246]

Where are you getting that information? It seems to be different that was every actual Hornet pilot has said on here.

 

Legacy Hornet NATOPS and SH NATOPS. There's a diagram with a legend explaining each button.

[Rennes]

Legacy Hornet NATOPS and SH NATOPS. There's a diagram with a legend explaining each button.

 

I don't see where you get that the throttle functionality is the same. They may look the same, which is all your going to get from a diagram.

 

The Legacy NATOPS doesn't describe the function of the switch at all.

[Lancel]

I think what most are looking for is an absolute axis for a radial dial, as most are not spring loaded but many have center detentes. Without the spring we can't replicate the functionality anyway, but if it had an absolute axis we could use our existing hardware to "dial" the desired elevation. It's probably more awkward than it sounds, since the elevation will have to be commanded until it matches the input, functionality the Hornet natively lacks. Still it would be nice given right now those dials are just too awkward, given you push them up and they just sit there when you release, meaning just more up.

[Svend_Dellepude]

I simple centering command would do the trick for me.

[norwegianwiking]

I'm using a rotary with a deadzone for the elevation. gives me a large detent around the actual center detent to rest it in.

[Ironwulf]

In the X56 there is a detent (for want of a better term) for centre position. Whilst that doesn't necessarily help others, I wonder if the real thing has the same thing. Whilst that doesn't help you recentre the elevation itself, it makes it pretty easy to drive the elevation back to centre.

 

I have to say I prefer the BMS/F16 way of doing it... but I am happy to stick with it, if that's how the real thing works.

[m4ti140]

In the X56 there is a detent (for want of a better term) for centre position. Whilst that doesn't necessarily help others, I wonder if the real thing has the same thing. Whilst that doesn't help you recentre the elevation itself, it makes it pretty easy to drive the elevation back to centre.

 

I have to say I prefer the BMS/F16 way of doing it... but I am happy to stick with it, if that's how the real thing works.

 

 

In the real throttle the axis is spring-loaded, so if you only have absolute axes available there's no way for you to replicate the real functionality.

[KittyVCAW-1]

My crappy $60 thrustmaster TWCS throttle has a spring loaded paddle perfect for antenna elevation control. It works awesome but it won't center the antenna for you. I've yet to feel the need to have it perfectly centered. I typicaly have it pointed wherever the bad guys are and it doesn't feel like it needs to be an exact science either. I'd bet everything I own there is no control to do this in the f-18 or really any other airplane. But what do I know? Makes me feel good I didn't spend $200+ on a "nice" throttle now. The real throttle has a dial that functions as a 3 position switch and not an axis I'm pretty sure too.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Jonnie2Bad