If anyone needs help with aerial refueling...

[Nealius]

...I made a quick video showing visual cues for the KC130's port basket. Still learning how to do the starboard basket but the lack of visual cues makes it tough. I might be able to make a similar video for tanking with the S-3.

 

We78eWFZ1Ls

[viper2097]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=227489&highlight=probe

[Nealius]

Link needs context to explain relevance to the topic.

[viper2097]

Your video is nice and I appreciate the work you put in it. I just think it would be a lot easier if the probe would be more forward and could be probably seen a bit.

As it reads in the thread, it seems definitely to be too far behind.

 

Personaly I also tried it with reference points. Just did not work perfect (differences while circle pattern, with wind etc...), so I most time try to "fly by feeling a pass nex to the drogue"...

[Nealius]

Well until/unless Razbam fixes the probe length, it doesn't affect how to do it in DCS currently.

[McShetty]

As someone who has somewhat recently went from never refueling to being able to do it from any position, plane, altitude, turning, just keep practicing. Stop for a while before you get pissed off and then go more later. The KC-130 prop is a good starting tip but after a while you won't need it and will get the feel of where you are based just on the hose size/position. I'm not really good at anything but have no life so it was just excess time. Probably more time than most people need.

 

 

Also, I'm working on looking sideways watching the basket. I haven't done it yet but been getting closer so I'm sure it's possible.

[Nealius]

Possible, but not recommended. Realistically you should never watch the basket. You watch the plane you're flying formation with.

[Konovalov]

Possible, but not recommended. Realistically you should never watch the basket. You watch the plane you're flying formation with.

100% agree. Do not "chase the basket".

[Floydii]

Great video. It'd be really helpful if you made a montage with all relevant tankers.

[Sadist_Cain]

Possible, but not recommended. Realistically you should never watch the basket. You watch the plane you're flying formation with.

 

Well if we're talking realistically... :music_whistling:

 

" As the drogue passes the canopy bow, scan should be transitioned directly to the drogue, which should now be abeam your left shoulder aligned with the refueling probe."

 

in DCS though life is certainly made easier by following the visual cues and just nailing the formation, back n forth till it's in ;) we don't have to worry about the intake eating the basket or smashing the canopy... yet.

 

Even still, I'd certainly recommend getting the over the shoulder glance down once you've got your visual cues down for aligning, flick the view over to the drogue, you will bounce like an utter nub with the lack of the A.R.S.E sensor, but your hands will soften and you'll get it soon enough.

 

 

I'm so very ready to suffer when the basket becomes a physical object with wake turbulence.:joystick: :cry:

 

 

[Nealius]

I'm surprised an official manual says to watch the drogue when in close formation with a plane loaded with thousands of gallons of fuel. That causes mid-airs. In contrast, the F-14, which has a similarly offset refuel probe, relied on RIO callouts so the pilot could do proper formation flying in practice. I'm increasingly finding that "in practice" does not always align with "in the manual."

[Sadist_Cain]

I'm surprised an official manual says to watch the drogue when in close formation with a plane loaded with thousands of gallons of fuel. That causes mid-airs. In contrast, the F-14, which has a similarly offset refuel probe, relied on RIO callouts so the pilot could do proper formation flying in practice. I'm increasingly finding that "in practice" does not always align with "in the manual."

 

Ya reckon that they're going fly blindly towards a basket they can't see full of steel and rubber, next to the intake for their only engine in said plane full of thousands of gallons of fuel?

 

RIO for the F-14 would spot because he has a much better view than the pilot, higher sitting position, more canopy bubble, less canopy bow to interfere with his view, if he's there you'd use him and the probe on the F14 is way way ahead of the harrier, putting it in an awkward position to see clearly as pilot. Each aircraft is going to have different constraints and priorities for AAR.

 

With the appropriate closure rate and whatnot you're looking at the basket for only a few seconds, the position where you should transfer your scan means you would have to try very VERY hard to get a mid air collision with anyone in your vicinity, providing they're flying where they should be.

 

The basket is the closest and most dangerous thing to your aircraft at that time, when it goes out of sight you damn well watch it lol, priorities.

 

You're definitely going to be noticing several G's worth of acceleration/turn along with the rapid disappearance of the drogue needed to hit another aircraft in this situation.

 

DCS is a different beast though, there's no seat of the pants feeling we don't have to worry about collision with the basket, the basket is totally fixed in space with a hitbox you can connect with from any angle (even with the probe retracted, you just won't get fuel :P) and so on, our priorities are different.

Tis definitely far easier to achieve successful contact and more importantly sustained formation by just locking your head forward.

The lack of A.R.S.E cannot be underestimated especially in AAR, it's one of the few things thats generally agreed to be harder to do in a desktop sim compared to reality.

 

However even in DCS, once youve got your rhythm down it can be surprisingly easy and intuitive to scan for that drogue.

 

Some examples below.

 

1:56 you can see his head transition at the edge of the frame.

 

2:20 Technically this naughty boy should have his visor down, we saw nothing :music_whistling:

 

another around 1:40

 

You'll see it in every refuel vid, even if it's the quickest of glances, you want to make sure the right bit is going in the right hole

Edited March 1, 2019 by Sadist_Cain

[Nealius]

Huh. I wonder if having actual peripheral vision and physical feedback from the aicraft makes that a non-issue in real life. On our 2D computer screens and stationary chairs a scan like that quickly leads to being out of position.

 

How did we get on this discussion again? Since it's not exactly pertinent to DCS techniques...

[Sadist_Cain]

Huh. I wonder if having actual peripheral vision and physical feedback from the aicraft makes that a non-issue in real life. On our 2D computer screens and stationary chairs a scan like that quickly leads to being out of position.

 

Exactly, I hesitate on the peripheral side of things (says the guy with the 35" ultrawide :P) because those helmets are still pretty restrictive, hence the exaggerated moves I guess. However the VR crowd say it's certainly much easier done with the headset, spatial awareness is much easier in proper 3 dimensions funnily enough :D

 

The feeling in the backside has to make life exponentially easier methinks, just feeling yourself shift around the seat ever so slightly as the plane moves in space, the feeling of the engine's RPM.

 

There must be so many unseen cues that we don't get just looking through the screen.

 

How did we get on this discussion again? Since it's not exactly pertinent to DCS techniques...

 

Well you did say 'realistically' :P

 

One day we'll have wake turbulence and, god willing, a physical basket, so it may come in handy learning now ;)

[Captain Orso]

With regards to how far forward the probe comes next to the cockpit, I think this video is the best I've seen to demonstrate that. Be aware, the camera is not mounted on the pilot's helmet, but appears to be somehow hand held; though don't ask me how the pilot is doing that while flying :huh:

 

[some1]

The video is taken from the front cockpit of a two-seater, so not really applicable to our aircraft.

 

[sirrah]

Maybe I'm the only one... But I have much less difficulties refueling the AV8B, than I have in the F/A-18C. In fact I find it rather easy to be honest (not something I can say about the Hornet).

 

Maybe it has something to do with the flight caracteristics, I don't know. No offence meant, but I don't understand why some people here prefer to see their own aircrafts refueling probe. In the 18 it rather distracts me than helps me fly a steady formation.

[Captain Orso]

The video is taken from the front cockpit of a two-seater, so not really applicable to our aircraft.

 

 

OMG you are right. I never read the title of the video, and since there rear seat has an HUD I never suspected it either :doh: .... :lol:

[Mandellorian]

...I made a quick video showing visual cues for the KC130's port basket. Still learning how to do the starboard basket but the lack of visual cues makes it tough. I might be able to make a similar video for tanking with the S-3.

 

We78eWFZ1Ls

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the video, Wondered what the heck i was doing wrong when every time just before contacting the basket with the probe i would get a breakaway call.It would appear i`m just a victim of bad programming.