birdstrike Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 cant say it often enough...best module ever! as im a lazy guy, i didnt read the manual yet, so i thought i jump into the training missions to perform a cold start....i failed. now im in vr, and i dont know whether this makes it slightly harder than on a monitor, but i seem to face the same problem like i did back then with the a-10c.... at first, it tells u "press the spacebar to proceed" once u have read the wall of text...thats fine. but after the first few steps, its mainly jester talking to u, and the visible messages dont remain visible. as i was lost in the cockpit details searching for this and that button, after a while i couldnt remember what jester actually wanted from me.... i would prefer for all training missions, to only have 1task at a time, and the visible text remain visible until the task is completed, confirmed with the "press spacebar to proceed". in the cold start tutorial, i was lost with i think 4 yellow squares pointing at switches, but overlapping each other... i gave up and watched a youtube tutorial...that worked the first time.
some1 Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 Yes, the training missions are not working well in VR. There's too much text for each segment and it does not fit the window. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
Rudel_chw Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 I was able to finish the cold start training, but on the second try :) .. I found the pace was too rushed, today I want to do the cold start by myself, while following both the Natops and Heatblur’s manual, while taking notes for writing my own version of the startup checklist .. for me, it is the only way I will be able to understand what I’m doing, instead of just following instructions blindly. I realize that I can ask Jester to recite the steps, but I truly want to fully learn this aircraft and dont mind reading manuals in order to do so :) Cheers! For work: iMac mid-2010 of 27" - Core i7 870 - 6 GB DDR3 1333 MHz - ATI HD5670 - SSD 256 GB - HDD 2 TB - macOS High Sierra For Gaming: 34" Monitor - Ryzen 3600 - 32 GB DDR4 2400 - nVidia RTX2080 - SSD 1.25 TB - HDD 10 TB - Win10 Pro - TM HOTAS Cougar Mobile: iPad Pro 12.9" of 256 GB
Pikey Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 This is a general advice for this situation, because VR is fairly unreadable due to the textures being worn and a perfect representation. The only way people will overcome this is to learn the buttons and what you (and I) went through was learning. It's natural to go through this period, and you will find the buttons without having to read them, and know which direction gets you to where you need. So long term message is not to worry. I know the miserable rotary called the Master Test button very well now. Just be thankful in VR that it's not the Mi8 with too much stuff behind you, that's a killer. There's lots of feedback on the VR limitations already, you just have to find a way. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *
valrond Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 I was thinking the same as the OP and I wasn't even in VR yet. It asks you to do several things each time, that is not a proper way of teaching, and I know cause I'm a teacher. Do one thing at a time, don't ask 3 or 4,and then have the text disappear.
some1 Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 This is a general advice for this situation, because VR is fairly unreadable due to the textures being worn and a perfect representation. The problem is exacerbated by the pace and structure of tutorial missions. I recently played the excellent tutorials by Baltic Dragon for other aircraft and they are more like a real training would look like. Or at least trying to teach a student something. Here it seems that the instructor just wants to read you a huge chunk of the manual and go back to flying F-14. Can't blame him really. Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil WarBRD, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro
wowbagger Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 Yep. I completely agree. It isn't just the Tomcat, several other modules suffer from this - information overload and strange pacing. Some screens say virtually nothing and then tell you to "press space to continue". And then it gives you far too much information to digest and too many tasks to understand in a wall of text ... "press space to continue". It wouldn't be such a problem except for DCS 's inability to keep the text onscreen for more than 6 minutes (or 8 minutes, or whatever it is). It makes it impossible to consult the manual and find your bearings while doing the tutorials. Small, individually pieced tasks along with a clear instruction as to what this button does and why it is important .... "press space to continue", would make the learning process more enjoyable and more efficient. Also the big throbbing orange indicator often blocks the labels making it impossible to see what you are actually clicking. It needs some more alpha or a different design. CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2
izzyssm Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 The only complaint I have is that the buttons and switches the training mission is telling me to push don't always align with with what they are called in the key bindings menu. I had a hard time finding some of the settings because they had different names. Ryzen 7 3800x - 32G DDR4 3400Mhz - RTX 2070 - M.2 1TB - Saitek x52 - Thrustmaster TFRP Pedals - Oculus Rift - 2 lap cats Modules: FC3, Mirage 2000, AJS37 Viggen, AV-8B, MIG-21bis, MIG-19P, Mig-15, F5-E3, F-86F, A-4, F-14, A-10C, JF-17
By-Jokese Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 On Instant Action, Tour of persion Gulf Im getting stuck at Init: 97, never before happened to me. Frontside Gaming [https://frontsidegaming.com/forum/]
the_soupdragon Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 It also seems to me that the IP assumes that you have read the manual and NATOPS........ Oops I must admit I havent read them as I like to read the manual once I have the Aircraft and I can try things out in the cockpit I find reading manuals without the aircraft a bit dry and abstract. Anyhoo I thought I would be able to follow along with the training missions but I did find myself losing track opf what was going on. sometimes the flashing Orange things wouldnt go away, at other times the IP wousay something like "put the hook bypass to field" eeeerrrrrrr where the heck is the hook bypass? no flashing orange thingy He says a lot of things and Im like WTH is that and where is it?? And that airfield landing tut. Wow I was all over the sky on that one looking for knobs and needles LOL I am loving the module though and I am muddling through with the manual at the moment. SD [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
hornblower793 Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 On Instant Action, Tour of persion Gulf Im getting stuck at Init: 97, never before happened to me. A declared issue with this mission in this build:thumbup: Windows 11 Home ¦ Z790 AORUS Elite AX motherboard ¦ i7-13700K ¦ 64GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5 memory @ 5600MHz ¦ Samsung 990 Pro 1TB SSD for OS, Samsung 980 Pro 2TB SSD for DCS ¦ MSI GeForce RTX 4090 Gaming X Trio 24GB ¦ Virpil WarBRD base with VFX grip, Thrustmaster A10c and F/A-18 grips ¦ VKB Gunfighter Mk4 and MCG Pro ¦ Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle ¦ VKB STECS Throttle ¦ Virpil TCS rotor base with Shark and AH-64D grips ¦ MFG Crosswinds ¦ Total Controls Multi-Function Button Box ¦ Pimax Crystal
TomCatMucDe Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 but after the first few steps, its mainly jester talking to u, and the visible messages dont remain visible. as i was lost in the cockpit details searching for this and that button, after a while i couldnt remember what jester actually wanted from me.... When asking the RIO for Startup, dont select the assisted one. Otherwise he will be talking at the same time as the insructor and it becomes a mess.
pii Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 It also seems to me that the IP assumes that you have read the manual and NATOPS........ Oops I must admit I havent read them as I like to read the manual once I have the Aircraft and I can try things out in the cockpit I find reading manuals without the aircraft a bit dry and abstract. Anyhoo I thought I would be able to follow along with the training missions but I did find myself losing track opf what was going on. sometimes the flashing Orange things wouldnt go away, at other times the IP wousay something like "put the hook bypass to field" eeeerrrrrrr where the heck is the hook bypass? no flashing orange thingy He says a lot of things and Im like WTH is that and where is it?? And that airfield landing tut. Wow I was all over the sky on that one looking for knobs and needles LOL I am loving the module though and I am muddling through with the manual at the moment. SD I have to say the manual seems lacking in actual steps to do certain things. Like say fire a sidewinder. I'd like to see a checklist that says 1 cool seeker 2. turn on A2A mode 3 select weapon (and show the location and not just say left panel which makes me scroll back to the top of a multi hundred page document to see if I can find where a certain switch or knob is located. PUT PICTURE WHERE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE FUNCTION!) 4 etc etc Now I have not read the whole thing so if they have that someone tell me where. The manual to me right now seems more like a "Here's where stuff is located have fun, bye" A well thought out manual with step by steps checklist with illustrations and pics next to it, not 200 pages back, is a must in complex sims and like this. With out it much harder and only encourages me to stop playing it. I don't have 20 hours a day to look stuff up. oh well:pilotfly:
wowbagger Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 (edited) Yes, this was my impression of the manual too. It's extremely well produced with great photos and diagrams and is brilliant for explaining how the aircraft is designed and functions, but quite noticeably lacking in actual user procedures .."and here are the steps to do X". This absolute beauty of a module deserves to eventually get an equally great manual so we can all make the most of it. Edited March 14, 2019 by wowbagger CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2
pii Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 Yes, this was my impression of the manual too. It's extremely well produced with great photos and diagrams and is brilliant for explaining how the aircraft is designed and functions, but quite noticeably lacking in actual user procedures .."and here are the steps to do X". This absolute beauty of a module deserves to eventually get an equally great manual so we can all make the most of it. lol I actually think many of the photos bite as some are so wore they can be hard to make out and some, like say a button, are just that, a picture of a button and nothing else that might help me find it in the cockpit. lol "here's a pic of an old button have fun finding it! " hopefully this is an EA manual because it differently needs work . :(
sze5003 Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 I noticed this information overload the first time I did that cold start up. I have yet to fly the jet because I still don't know how to start it up by the book. What would help is break down the sections of large text especially in VR and have press space bar more often after each item they want you to press. For example when the instructor started talking about time to start the engines, I thought I was supposed to be doing everything in that giant paragraph. I had both engines started by the time he got to the last paragraph and then I saw, "now set the crank to right engine" Oh oops I already did all that was I supposed to to wait? What helped me was to use the instant action cold start mission and use jester for assisted start. I did that first then I went and did the cold and dark training mission again and this time I wasn't bothered by the information or the speed of it at which it was spewing out of the instructor's mouth. Asus ROG Strix Z790-E | Core i9 13900K-NZXT Kraken X73 AIO | 32GB DDR5 G Skill Neo 6600mhz | 2TB Sk Hynix P41 Platinum nvme |1TB Evo 970 Plus nvme | OCZ Trion 150 960GB | 256GB Samsung 830 | 1TB Samsung 850 EVO | Gigabyte OC 4090 | Phanteks P600S | 1000W MSI MPG A1000G | LG C2 42 Evo 3840x2160 @ 120hz
wowbagger Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 The manual is not so bad if you follow the flow around the cockpit. Granted it's better for reading a lot at one sitting than it is for looking up a single item as a reference. I really like the greyed out surrounding backgrounds to help focus attention on the dial/gauge/button in question - similar to some of the tutorial videos. CPU:5600X | GPU:RTX2080 | RAM:32GB | Disk:860EVOm.2
pii Posted March 14, 2019 Posted March 14, 2019 The manual is not so bad if you follow the flow around the cockpit. Granted it's better for reading a lot at one sitting than it is for looking up a single item as a reference. I really like the greyed out surrounding backgrounds to help focus attention on the dial/gauge/button in question - similar to some of the tutorial videos. "The manual is not so bad if you follow the flow around the cockpit." That's a big problem for me as you can be on page 200 and then have to scroll back to page 10 to find the knob or switch, drives me nuts. Haven't tried a tutorial since A10c's when they didn't work properly. lol Doesn't sound like they've gotten much better. :) I'll try giving it a good read this weekend though and see if it changes my mind. Happy flying :pilotfly::joystick:
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