TWS Auto? Question for Devs

[MobiSev]

Has TWS Auto been implemented yet? If not, is there a time frame we might see it?

[QuiGon]

It has not been implemented yet.

[IceFire]

It has been in the F-14 since day one. Jester's default mode is TWS Auto and if you have a human RIO, TWS auto works just fine.

[VC]

The advanced features of it are not implemented. Yes, it will track and prioritise targets by default, but it's meant to automatically slew the scan zone to follow the centre or mass of the targets. And the AIM-54 active indication is missing.

[OnlyforDCS]

It has been in the F-14 since day one. Jester's default mode is TWS Auto and if you have a human RIO, TWS auto works just fine.

 

This is unfortunately not true. TWS Auto is not yet implemented or functional.

[QuiGon]

It has been in the F-14 since day one. Jester's default mode is TWS Auto and if you have a human RIO, TWS auto works just fine.

This is wrong. TWS auto does not work yet. You can select TWS auto, but it is the same as TWS manual, just with locked radar elevation. There is no automatic scan control implemented yet, which is what TWS auto is all about: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=3840537#post3840537

Edited April 9, 2019 by QuiGon

[viper2097]

Yes, it will track and prioritise targets by default, but it's meant to automatically slew the scan zone to follow the centre or mass of the targets. And the AIM-54 active indication is missing.

 

Read this now the first time, wow, thats an awesome feature...

 

Does the Aim-54 going active indication have something to do with TWS auto/man?

[QuiGon]

Does the Aim-54 going active indication have something to do with TWS auto/man?

It's only available in TWS mode. At least this kind of indication.

Maybe there is a different pitbull indication in STT mode? Haven't heard of one so far.

[viper2097]

My question was more if the going active indication is related to the difference between the TWS auto and the TWS man mode.

As I'm wondering that it come up here, as I would have thought, that it is an problem that has nothing to do with those two modes itself....

[VC]

Probably not related to mode but I mentioned it as it's another part of TWS (not necessarily Auto) functionality not implemented.

[QuiGon]

My question was more if the going active indication is related to the difference between the TWS auto and the TWS man mode.

As I'm wondering that it come up here, as I would have thought, that it is an problem that has nothing to do with those two modes itself....

Oh, alright. IIRC when you launch a AIM-54 in TWS MAN the WCS will automatically switch to TWS AUTO on launch, so you will never be in TWS Man with a Phoenix in the air.

[MysteriousHonza]

There is no pitbull for AIM54 launched in STT i think, it should behave like SAHR missile. But now AIM54 is broken and acts like AIM120

[QuiGon]

There is no pitbull for AIM54 launched in STT i think, it should behave like SAHR missile. But now AIM54 is broken and acts like AIM120

You're right, the Phoenix never goes active in STT, so there is no pitbull indication either. I actually never thought about it like that :doh:

Although it would be nice to have an indication for when the missile could go pitbull effectively, in case I want to drop the lock on the bandit.

[Airhunter]

You're right, the Phoenix never goes active in STT, so there is no pitbull indication either. I actually never thought about it like that :doh:

Although it would be nice to have an indication for when the missile could go pitbull effectively, in case I want to drop the lock on the bandit.

 

You could technically launch it in active mode but no idea what that does to the range combines with STT.

[QuiGon]

You could technically launch it in active mode but no idea what that does to the range combines with STT.

If you launch the Phoenix in active mode it won't be guided by the radar at all. It will just go for the first target it detects and is limited to a range of about 10nm as this is the range of the Phoenixes own radar. It has nothing to do with STT.

[Whisper]

Oh, alright. IIRC when you launch a AIM-54 in TWS MAN the WCS will automatically switch to TWS AUTO on launch, so you will never be in TWS Man with a Phoenix in the air.

 

You can switch to TWS MAN post launch, AFAIK

[deadpool]

You can switch to TWS MAN post launch, AFAIK

 

I did ask the devs of the F-14 to disable the automated switch from TWS MAN to TWS AUTO on launch until TWS AUTO is correctly implemented.

 

Otherwise and especially in times X engagements with azimuth or elevation angles involved it will lead to fades immediatly after launch :-(

[Naquaii]

You can switch to TWS MAN post launch, AFAIK

 

This will not be possible afaik when we have TWS AUTO modelled as the WCS forces this mode to support the missiles.

[viper2097]

You're right, the Phoenix never goes active in STT, so there is no pitbull indication either. I actually never thought about it like that :doh:

Although it would be nice to have an indication for when the missile could go pitbull effectively, in case I want to drop the lock on the bandit.

 

Would help nothing. The Aim-54 does not go pitbull in STT. When you loose lock, you also loose the missile. There is no active command sent to the missile.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=238762 - Point 1

[QuiGon]

Would help nothing. The Aim-54 does not go pitbull in STT. When you loose lock, you also loose the missile. There is no active command sent to the missile.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=238762 - Point 1

Interesting, thanks! :thumbup:

[Banzaiib]

Would help nothing. The Aim-54 does not go pitbull in STT. When you loose lock, you also loose the missile. There is no active command sent to the missile.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=238762 - Point 1

 

Point 1 and Point 2 contradict. You can't switch to pulse mode in TWS, which implies he's talking about STT lock firing of the 54 in point 2 when he says that switching from PD to P mode loses the 54 if it's in flight. That also means that he's implying that an active command is sent during STT, which he directly contradicts in his response to point 1... or at least your understanding of it. IRL, the 54 is given an active command when it's in rang of the target in STT mode. You can also launch it active off the rail but remain STT guided the whole way. It makes no sense, given that you can make it active off the rail while remaining STT guided that it would not receive the command to go active, unless, of course, the missile is flying a profile outside the STT beam width, which would preclude it from receiving the active command. TWS has a much much larger scan volume, but I have no idea how that actually works.

[GGTharos]

It doesn't need to be in the beam. The command is carried on the sidelobes.

[Naquaii]

Eventually switching out of PD will loose the missile yes as this i how it was irl afaik.

 

Just keep in mind that currently the AIM-54 works exactly like a AIM-120 in DCS. It will always go active within a certain distance to target.

 

The first improvement we plan to add is to stop the seeker from going active until we tell it to which will mean that we can implement the PD-STT mode were it never goes active as well as fine tune when it goes active in TWS.

[Belphe]

Please, forgive my ignorance..

 

As far as I know the AWG-9 "STT radar operation" differs from "missile launched in TWS mode radar operation". With any other Fox 3 the enemy RWR can ID these 2 different modes and notifies the enemy about launch, correct? Is the Tomcat "TWS radar mode + passive Phoenix" a different brew and the enemy is never alerted about the launch?

[Tyrant07]

Enemy will see the 14 nails on the RWR but will receive no TWS launch warning.

 

The enemy RWR will alert them to incoming missile once it goes pit-bull.