ETA for fixing FA/18 & F-14 immunity to Flankers' jammers?

[BattleAxes Skinner]

Hi team,

 

Is there an ETA to fix the FA/18 & F14 radars being immune to other fighters' jammers?

[wholehawg]

Do either the F-18 or F-14 have a working jammer. I seem to recall that the F-18 still doesn't, maybe its a balance thing?

[nighthawk2174]

No neither have a jammer, I wouldn't be surprised if their not added until a more realistic jammer model can be added.

[BattleAxes Skinner]

But that’s no reason for the F18 and F14 radars to see right through Sukhoi’s jammers?!?!

[Gierasimov]

Interesting, I thought Electronic Warfare was never a thing in DCS at all.

[QuiGon]

But that’s no reason for the F18 and F14 radars to see right through Sukhoi’s jammers?!?!

This is not limited to Sukhoi Jammers. The Hornet and the Tomcat are not affected by any jammers. F-15, A-10C, Viggen, Mirage, MiG-21 and MiG-29 jammer won't work either. The Tomcat and the Hornet just don't have any jamming effects implemented currently. I think this is just one of the missing features of these modules. The Hornet is also still missing its own jammer functionality.

But yeah, the fact that these two aircraft currently don't have any jamming effects implemented is almost like cheating and should be added ASAP :(

 

 

Do either the F-18 or F-14 have a working jammer. I seem to recall that the F-18 still doesn't, maybe its a balance thing?

This has nothing to do with balancing, it's just missing features. The Hornet still misses both, jamming effects when being jammed as well as their own jamming functionality. The Tomcat also missing jamming effects when being jammed, but it already got it's own jamming functionality implemented.

Edited May 8, 2019 by QuiGon

[QuiGon]

Interesting, I thought Electronic Warfare was never a thing in DCS at all.

EW is a thing in DCS, although it's pretty shallow and superficial. Against AI aircraft and SAMs jamming will reduce their max lock on range and thus their max shooting range for radar guided missiles. Against player aircraft jamming will also deny range and IFF responses untill burnthrough is achieved (except for the Hornet and the Tomcat which are immune to jamming for now as explained above). It also creates false contacts on the Mirage 2000 radar display.

 

Playable aircraft with jamming capability in DCS are the following:

- A-10C (with pod)

- F-15

- Su-27

- Su-33 (I think it has, because I'm not flying it myself)

- MiG-29 (I think it has, because I'm not flying it myself)

- MiG-21 (with pod)

- Viggen (with pod)

- Mirage 2000C

- F-14

- F/A-18C (not yet implemented)

Maybe the Su-25 as well (with pod), but I don't know

Edited May 9, 2019 by QuiGon

[Gierasimov]

Rog, thanks!

[BattleAxes Skinner]

This is not limited to Sukhoi Jammers. The Hornet and the Tomcat are not affected by any jammers. F-15, A-10C, Viggen, Mirage, MiG-21 and MiG-29 jammer won't work either. The Tomcat and the Hornet just don't have any jamming effects implemented currently. I think this is just one of the missing features of these modules. The Hornet is also still missing its own jammer functionality.

But yeah, the fact that these two aircraft currently don't have any jamming effects implemented is almost like cheating and should be added ASAP :(

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with balancing, it's just missing features. The Hornet still misses both, jamming effects when being jammed as well as their own jamming functionality. The Tomcat also missing jamming effects when being jammed, but it already got it's own jamming functionality implemented.

 

Thanks QuiGon. My thoughts exactly. This alone puts the Sukhoi and other jamming aircrafts at a disadvantage. Quite a lot of tech asymmetry.

[Sandman1330]

I'm wondering if the Hornet truly is immune to jamming right now.

 

I have found that I often have difficulty achieving a stable STT until within a certain range, usually 30NM or so against an AI MiG29. Before that, attempting to lock will give me a very brief STT, followed by a lost track and return to RWS.

 

While this isn't a correct depiction of what jamming would look like (I shouldn't even be able to see them in RWS, as range information is denied), it does seem like there is some effect there.

 

Or maybe it's just still bugs in the Hornet's radar, but it should be able to maintain STT outside 30NM...

[Strikeeagle345]

I'm wondering if the Hornet truly is immune to jamming right now.

 

I have found that I often have difficulty achieving a stable STT until within a certain range, usually 30NM or so against an AI MiG29. Before that, attempting to lock will give me a very brief STT, followed by a lost track and return to RWS.

 

While this isn't a correct depiction of what jamming would look like (I shouldn't even be able to see them in RWS, as range information is denied), it does seem like there is some effect there.

 

Or maybe it's just still bugs in the Hornet's radar, but it should be able to maintain STT outside 30NM...

 

It is not. Our wing did a recent mission and the AI jammed our Hornet guys.

[QuiGon]

I'm wondering if the Hornet truly is immune to jamming right now.

 

I have found that I often have difficulty achieving a stable STT until within a certain range, usually 30NM or so against an AI MiG29. Before that, attempting to lock will give me a very brief STT, followed by a lost track and return to RWS.

 

While this isn't a correct depiction of what jamming would look like (I shouldn't even be able to see them in RWS, as range information is denied), it does seem like there is some effect there.

 

Or maybe it's just still bugs in the Hornet's radar, but it should be able to maintain STT outside 30NM...

It is immune to jamming, but it is not immune to things like notching which is probably what happened here and is correct behaviour.

 

 

It is not. Our wing did a recent mission and the AI jammed our Hornet guys.

How do you know? What where the jamming effects in the Hornet?

[Napa]

I found the IFF interrogation doesn't work on AI with jamming pods. But I'm not sure about it. It might be something else.

[QuiGon]

I found the IFF interrogation doesn't work on AI with jamming pods. But I'm not sure about it. It might be something else.

That would be pretty weird, because in all the other aircraft that have jamming effects implemented this only happens when IFFing player controlled aircraft that have their jammers active. This does not happen against AI aircraft afaik.

If what you are saying would be true, then Hornets would never be able to IFF AI aircraft like the F-15 that have internal jammers which are allways onboard.

I'm pretty your IFF troubles are unrelated to jamming ;)

[Sandman1330]

It is immune to jamming, but it is not immune to things like notching which is probably what happened here and is correct behaviour

 

The enemy aircraft were hot, over 900kts closure, so definitely not notching.

 

This happens to me consistently against AI, I haven’t done enough BVR against other players to say conclusively if it happens in MP as well.

 

Again, not sure if something else is at play, but I had always just kind of chalked it up to a poor or simplified implementation of jamming...

[QuiGon]

I'm pretty sure there's something else at play. If you could upload a track I can take a look at it.

[Sandman1330]

I'm pretty sure there's something else at play. If you could upload a track I can take a look at it.

 

Might be able to make one this weekend.

 

Easy to replicate though: at longer ranges (I think 30+NM), you attempt a STT on a hot AI MIG29. The radar will lock for less than a second, then lose the lock (broken box on HUD), and after a few more seconds when it doesn’t reaquire it goes back to RWS. Try again, same result until close enough.

 

I’m not saying conclusively this is due to jamming, as it would be a very poor and simplified implementation if so. However, it has much the same overall effect on a hornets ability to engage. :dunno:

Edited May 10, 2019 by Sandman1330

[AeriaGloria]

Be aware that the MiG-29A has no jammer. Only the S, which is in the mission editor under its cryllic spelling MiG-29C. That’s the only MiG-29 AI that has a jammer

[Snowblind]

harrier DECM pod also works

[BattleAxes Skinner]

harrier DECM pod also works

 

Works on what? The F18 and F14? I honestly doubt it!

[Exorcet]

Might be able to make one this weekend.

 

Easy to replicate though: at longer ranges (I think 30+NM), you attempt a STT on a hot AI MIG29. The radar will lock for less than a second, then lose the lock (broken box on HUD), and after a few more seconds when it doesn’t reaquire it goes back to RWS. Try again, same result until close enough.

 

I’m not saying conclusively this is due to jamming, as it would be a very poor and simplified implementation if so. However, it has much the same overall effect on a hornets ability to engage. :dunno:

Some time ago AI jamming was changed so that by default the jammers only worked when they're locked on to. I think this was actually a quick temporary(?) measure to make SPJ's more realistic since they shouldn't send a signal to a radar that might not see them (and give their position away). When you encounter one of these jammers in the F-15 at least is acts in a very similar manner to what you describe. The lock is dropped, you very briefly see jamming bars on the radar, then the radar contact returns. This will repeat until the jammer is in burn through range.

 

 

That said I don't really recall seeing this in the F-18, or at least I didn't attribute lost locks to jamming. I'll have to go back and look into it again.