Proper way to land in a crosswind?

[A2597]

So landing on Georgia at War yesterday there was a decent crosswind over the runway. This got me thinking...what is the "correct" way to land with a crosswind?

 

 

Do you line up straight with the runway then steer into the wind (effectively flying directly along the course line, with your plane slightly sideways), or do you fly the course line heading, offset from the runway and set your velocity vector on the runway, effectively letting the wind push you over the runway by the time you land?

 

 

 

(I chose the latter, felt a little weird since I was lined up to the right of the airport, then over the ramps, then finally the runway shortly before touchdown)

[Chuck_Henry]

That's interesting that NATOPS recommends against wing down-top rudder. That's the only crosswind landing technique taught during Primary in the T-6B. I suppose they didn't trust us to take out the proper amount of crab just prior to touchdown, which would create excessive side loads on the gear.

[Dooker]

Crosswind in simulators

 

I'm an FAA-certified instructor pilot in the US, and while I wasn't military (important obvious differences) and don't instruct much anymore, there are certainly some universal tips. In general, simulators are not very good at simulating what smaller aircraft will often do, even fighters are relatively light in the grand scheme, a wing low technique. In high crosswinds, a crab followed by reducing the crab in conjunction with upwind wing low would be the best technique. This being a simulator, like everyone else, I'd say crab only if you're having trouble but sideslip is still generally modeled and so I'd say experiment with crab and wing low and see how it goes.

[G B]

That's interesting that NATOPS recommends against wing down-top rudder. That's the only crosswind landing technique taught during Primary in the T-6B. I suppose they didn't trust us to take out the proper amount of crab just prior to touchdown, which would create excessive side loads on the gear.

 

I would not try to correlate anything between primary and fleet aircraft. Expect there to be way more differences than similarities, both regarding systems and flying technique. Do not be surprised.

[G B]

I'm an FAA-certified instructor pilot in the US, and while I wasn't military (important obvious differences) and don't instruct much anymore, there are certainly some universal tips. In general, simulators are not very good at simulating what smaller aircraft will often do, even fighters are relatively light in the grand scheme, a wing low technique. In high crosswinds, a crab followed by reducing the crab in conjunction with upwind wing low would be the best technique. This being a simulator, like everyone else, I'd say crab only if you're having trouble but sideslip is still generally modeled and so I'd say experiment with crab and wing low and see how it goes.

 

The real Hornet Pilots use the NATOPS procedure described above. It was written after numerous test flights and analysis to be the best technique for the Hornet.

[Dooker]

The real Hornet Pilots use the NATOPS procedure described above. It was written after numerous test flights and analysis to be the best technique for the Hornet.

 

This isn't a real Hornet. It's is a flight simulator. Thats my point.

[G B]

This isn't a real Hornet. It's is a flight simulator. Thats my point.

 

In that case I misunderstood your point. Apologies. No intention of coming across as contrarian if that’s what happened. Agree it’s a sim and there’s natural differences. Many will try to use the technique of the real aircraft and apply it to the sim though for “realism” reasons.

Edited May 9, 2019 by G B

[Mule]

I'm an FAA-certified instructor pilot in the US, and while I wasn't military (important obvious differences) and don't instruct much anymore, there are certainly some universal tips. In general, simulators are not very good at simulating what smaller aircraft will often do, even fighters are relatively light in the grand scheme, a wing low technique. In high crosswinds, a crab followed by reducing the crab in conjunction with upwind wing low would be the best technique. This being a simulator, like everyone else, I'd say crab only if you're having trouble but sideslip is still generally modeled and so I'd say experiment with crab and wing low and see how it goes.

 

Great points. I posted the NATOPS thing because I don’t know any different and that’s kind of the only credible source I can use. I do understand it is just a simulation and I take your advice on board. If your way works that’s what I will do. Much appreciated.

[A2597]

So, this look like a good example of what to aim for?

[Preendog]

In the sim the best way to land it is however you want. You could land sideways without adverse effects. I've tried hard to pop the tires or snap off a leg but it just won't happen. Someone even demonstrated that you can land on the gear while it's extending.

 

Even if you break the gear, it doesn't actually affect anything, and the plane drifts better with crushed oleos (lower CoG, so it doesn't tip over so much). I hope it never changes.

[A2597]

In the sim the best way to land it is however you want. You could land sideways without adverse effects. I've tried hard to pop the tires or snap off a leg but it just won't happen. Someone even demonstrated that you can land on the gear while it's extending.

 

Even if you break the gear, it doesn't actually affect anything, and the plane drifts better with crushed oleos (lower CoG, so it doesn't tip over so much). I hope it never changes.

 

 

While true, part of the joy of this game for me personally is believing I'm actually flying an F-18. I fly solely in VR (I've never played DCS without the headset on) and do the full startup, pre-flight, taxi back to the ramp after landing, full shutdown. etc. Part of that is trying to do things "properly", even if I don't technically need to. (I don't need to check my brake and battery levels before doing my fire tests, but I do...)

 

 

 

It usually means my play sessions are limited to a single mission/flight, but it's a lot of fun for me to play this way.

 

 

A second part of it is I very well may get my private pilots license in the future, including IFR rating. While a civilian prop plane is wildly different than a military fighter, there is certainly still cross over and a big part of that is the discipline to not cut corners. Figure start those practices now. :)

[Sandman1330]

The crab technique is probably used because the wing low technique risks scraping low hanging stores on the runway, like fuel tanks. Commercial airliners also crab rather than slip to avoid scraping under wing mounted engines.

[WindyTX]

Actually the Autopilot on Boeing 777 does a bit of both in a strong crosswind during an autoland.

 

Military pilots are taught the crab technique tho. Imagine you are flying your backside down the extended centerline and point the nose where it needs to keep your backside on the extended centerline. As you approach the flare squeeze the rudder to straighten the aircraft apply opposite aileron to keep the wings level that's the biggest error I see when teaching it.

 

Final note is that DCS has a crazy amount of shear so at the ground it's half of what it is at 1500ft this means flying your backside ( the aircraft ) down the extended centerline means constant adjustments which is actually harder than real life.

 

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

[Sandman1330]

Actually the Autopilot on Boeing 777 does a bit of both in a strong crosswind during an autoland.

 

Military pilots are taught the crab technique tho. Imagine you are flying your backside down the extended centerline and point the nose where it needs to keep your backside on the extended centerline. As you approach the flare squeeze the rudder to straighten the aircraft apply opposite aileron to keep the wings level that's the biggest error I see when teaching it.

 

Final note is that DCS has a crazy amount of shear so at the ground it's half of what it is at 1500ft this means flying your backside ( the aircraft ) down the extended centerline means constant adjustments which is actually harder than real life.

 

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Tapatalk

 

When I flew the Harvard II (Texan II) I think we were taught the slip technique, but that’s because that thing has such spindly landing gear you can’t land with any crab at all. Got a buddy who rode the silk after landing hard and initiating a go around, only to find out he couldn’t get 3 green again afterwards...

 

Didn’t know that about the 777, cool!

[Fri13]

For a Hornet using the pedals at the end might be a proper way, but for others it is easier to roll on the wind and you can fly straight, and then just before touchdown you roll aircraft back to level.

 

Just as an example, you have a 9 meters per second sidewind from the eft, so you roll to the left by a 2-3 degrees. You keep all your instruments otherwise same for ILS etc as such small roll angle doesn't change accuracy of radio compass etc.

[WindyTX]

When I flew the Harvard II (Texan II) I think we were taught the slip technique, but that’s because that thing has such spindly landing gear you can’t land with any crab at all. Got a buddy who rode the silk after landing hard and initiating a go around, only to find out he couldn’t get 3 green again afterwards...

 

 

 

Didn’t know that about the 777, cool!

I was T37, T38 and Hawk so maybe they had to modify it I am getting old now lol

 

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[Sandman1330]

I was T37, T38 and Hawk so maybe they had to modify it I am getting old now lol

 

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Haha the tweet, really? Looks a lot like our old Tutor (which the Snowbirds still fly)

 

You must have some great stories of students trying to kill you in those things!

[26-J39]

[Oesau]

 

Skip ahead to the landings (I was there that day, not a lot flew due to the x-winds)

 

SNAP - posted the same thing at the same time!

[A2597]

Welp. Answers that one. Now to practice. haha

[BuzzU]

It's always a joy to watch real pilots.