[NO BUG/ BUG?] Autopilot pitch hold

[jonsky7]

So until fairly recently, not sure which update though, the autopilot would hold pitch and roll attitude with just the main switch set to engaged. You could then use the control stick to set a new pitch and roll attitude and the autopilot would maintain the new attitude.

 

Recently the autopilot wants to return to whatever the pitch attitude was at the time of engaging the autopilot instead of maintaining new pitch attitude, the new roll attitude is held however.

 

Track file attached

autopilot.trk

Edited August 4, 2019 by IronMike

[CoBlue]

So until fairly recently, not sure which update though, the autopilot would hold pitch and roll attitude with just the main switch set to engaged. You could then use the control stick to set a new pitch and roll attitude and the autopilot would maintain the new attitude.

Recently the autopilot wants to return to whatever the pitch attitude was at the time of engaging the autopilot instead of maintaining new pitch attitude, the new roll attitude is held however.

Track file attached

It works for me as before. Just tested, with & without stores, AP ENG-On, in straight & level. AP has no problem holding 20deg pitch up or down in 60 deg bank. Even ALT-On works very well.

Do you have the same problem with other modules?

[Strikeeagle345]

Works fine here.

[IronMike]

I just did a quick test, it does assume the new pitch after altering it with the stick (same for roll). However if you run out of speed/lift, it will start falling back.

[jonsky7]

I just did a quick test, it does assume the new pitch after altering it with the stick (same for roll). However if you run out of speed/lift, it will start falling back.

 

Well it's not doing that for me for some reason :(

 

As I pull back on the stick I can see the trim system pushing the stick forward against my wishes

[jonsky7]

I made a video as I can see the track file I posted is worse than useless

 

 

Another thing I've noticed is now when in ALT hold mode, if I change altitude or pitch, I don't get the "A/P Ref" light on the panel below the hud.

 

It lights up when I change roll though.

 

Definitely something not right.

 

edit: no mods activated and re-installed the F14 module

[jonsky7]

Just tried my second install, open beta 2.5.4.28461, and it's working fine in that build

[IronMike]

Just tried my second install, open beta 2.5.4.28461, and it's working fine in that build

 

 

 

 

Hey Jonsky, this indicates to me that something is off with your install. Did you try running a repair? Also if you uninstall the Tomcat, make sure to delete all possible remaining folders in coremods and mods aircraft folders, you could also try backing up your inputs and completely removing them, so you have no F-14 related folders left. Then run a repair. If that does not fix it (before restoring your inputs), the install might be corrupted somewhere else, it is really hard to say like that.

[jonsky7]

Hey Jonsky, this indicates to me that something is off with your install. Did you try running a repair? Also if you uninstall the Tomcat, make sure to delete all possible remaining folders in coremods and mods aircraft folders, you could also try backing up your inputs and completely removing them, so you have no F-14 related folders left. Then run a repair. If that does not fix it (before restoring your inputs), the install might be corrupted somewhere else, it is really hard to say like that.

 

Thanks for trying Ironmike,

 

I completely moved my savegames folder, so all the config/keybindings were reset, still the same.

 

I completely deleted my current and up to date openbeta version of DCS

Copied my 2.5.4.28461 install into the now empty above location.

Autopilot working fine.

Updated that install to latest, autopilot then broken.

 

Can you double check this part

Another thing I've noticed is with ALT hold mode,

Engage A/P to on

Alt hold to on

A/P Ref light comes on

click nosewheel steering switch, ref light goes out, aircraft holds altitude.

change pitch, A/P Ref does not come back on aircraft returns to previously held altitude.

Change roll, A/P ref does come back on

[hornblower793]

Mine seems to work fine as well (until I stalled pushing it more and more vertical:D)

[Ramsay]

If that does not fix it (before restoring your inputs), the install might be corrupted somewhere else, it is really hard to say like that.

I have the same issue using a MS FFB2 stick.

 

Attitude hold (pitch and roll) is working but it's not possible to adjust pitch while the auto-pilot is engaged. Setting altitude hold / heading hold has no effect.

 

 

Altitude Hold bug @0:55 sec

 

Disabling FFB and using SimFFB for a centering force - adjusting autopilot roll/bank is easier as shallow changes (i.e. 10°) take effect immediately, using FFB the bank change needed is more like +45° before the change takes - I'm using 60% force feedback if that matters as to when the autopilot recognises pilot input ?

 

IIRC the RL autopilot disconnects with 10 lbs force but I'd need to re-read the manual to be sure I've understood it correctly.

 

Using the controls indicator (RCtrl+Enter):

 

With the autopilot enabled - left/right trim is adjustable with the trim hat but pitch trim is not.

 

• Pushing the stick forward, the autopilot ? drives the trim indicator back (to maintain the current attitude).

• Pulling the stick back, the autopilot ? drives the trim indicator forward (to maintain the current attitude).

 

This is true both with and without FFB enabled in DCS.

 

The only way I can set an approx. altitude hold is by setting an attitude with +/- 500 ft VVI and adjusting the throttle.

 

Attitude hold is sufficient to be heads down at altitude but not for flying Case 3 Mode 1 ACLS @ 1200 ft to the acquisition window @ 4NM.

 

So rather than following the RL ACLS sequence, it's a case of engaging almost everything (autopilot, auto-throttle/AoA, NWS, etc.) at the acquisition window/GS tipping point - otherwise I'm fighting against the auto-pilot or subject to the auto-throttle disengaging (my old throttle has jitter) with very little safety margin.

 

Tested DCS Open Beta 2.5.5.33552

Edited July 26, 2019 by Ramsay
Add video clip

[jonsky7]

I have the same issue using a MS FFB2 stick.

 

Attitude hold (pitch and roll) is working but it's not possible to adjust pitch while the auto-pilot is engaged. Setting altitude hold / heading hold has no effect.

 

 

Altitude Hold bug @0:55 sec

 

Disabling FFB and using SimFFB for a centering force - adjusting autopilot roll/bank is easier as shallow changes (i.e. 10°) take effect immediately, using FFB the bank change needed is more like +45° before the change takes - I'm using 60% force feedback if that matters as to when the autopilot recognises pilot input ?

 

IIRC the RL autopilot disconnects with 10 lbs force but I'd need to re-read the manual to be sure I've understood it correctly.

 

Using the controls indicator (RCtrl+Enter):

 

With the autopilot enabled - left/right trim is adjustable with the trim hat but pitch trim is not.

 

• Pushing the stick forward, the autopilot ? drives the trim indicator back (to maintain the current attitude).

• Pulling the stick back, the autopilot ? drives the trim indicator forward (to maintain the current attitude).

 

This is true both with and without FFB enabled in DCS.

 

The only way I can set an approx. altitude hold is by setting an attitude with +/- 500 ft VVI and adjusting the throttle.

 

Attitude hold is sufficient to be heads down at altitude but not for flying Case 3 Mode 1 ACLS @ 1200 ft to the acquisition window @ 4NM.

 

So rather than following the RL ACLS sequence, it's a case of engaging almost everything (autopilot, auto-throttle/AoA, NWS, etc.) at the acquisition window/GS tipping point - otherwise I'm fighting against the auto-pilot or subject to the auto-throttle disengaging (my old throttle has jitter) with very little safety margin.

 

Tested DCS Open Beta 2.5.5.33552

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one, though I have no idea how to fix it. Pulled my hair out before I gave up.

 

If you engage autopilot, and alt hold, the A/P ref lights up till you hit the nose wheel steering button which sets the hold altitude, mine does level off then, but when I pitch up and down after that the light doesn't come back on like it used to.

 

Very nice use of the controls indicator there!

 

But I guess not enough people are experiencing this.

[Ramsay]

If you engage autopilot, and alt hold, the A/P ref lights up till you hit the nose wheel steering button which sets the hold altitude, mine does level off then, but when I pitch up and down after that the light doesn't come back on like it used to.

Oh wow !!! Thanks for putting me right :thumbup:

 

I never thought to use the AP ref./nose wheel steering to engage altitude hold - I totally missed that in the manual :book:

 

ALT switch

ON/OFF switch, enables altitude hold. Engaged by NWS button on pilot stick.

 

So rather than following the RL ACLS sequence, it's a case of engaging almost everything (autopilot, auto-throttle/AoA, NWS, etc.) at the acquisition window/GS tipping point - otherwise I'm fighting against the auto-pilot or subject to the auto-throttle disengaging (my old throttle has jitter) with very little safety margin.

 

Tested DCS Open Beta 2.5.5.33552

 

Using AP ref./nose wheel steering to engage the auto-pilot's altitude hold, it looks like ACLS will work as documented with the correct sequence of lamps, etc. - though I'm a little embarrassed, I'm glad I got something useful out of my video, even if no one else does :lol:

[jonsky7]

Oh wow !!! Thanks for putting me right :thumbup:

 

I never thought to use the AP ref./nose wheel steering to engage altitude hold - I totally missed that in the manual :book:

 

 

 

 

 

Using AP ref./nose wheel steering to engage the auto-pilot's altitude hold, it looks like ACLS will work as documented with the correct sequence of lamps, etc. - though I'm a little embarrassed, I'm glad I got something useful out of my video, even if no one else does :lol:

 

So knowing this new information, if you engage and set the altitude hold, then move the stick in the pitch direction, does your A/P Ref light come back on?

 

Your trim system seems to be doing what mine is currently doing, so I'd be interested to know if your Alt hold behaves like mine does.

[Talonx1]

As of todays patch I'm having similar issues with the AP. I used to set hdg and alt switches to the up position and turn on the ap and it would hold my pitch and roll till I hit the NW switch and it would level off at my selected altitude. Then I could maneuver the aircraft with delayed input till the required stick pressure was met and the a/p light would come back on but it would hold whatever pitch and roll I lined up on when I released stick pressure.

 

Now whenever I set the ap it seems to want to go back to that pitch no matter what I do and will max out my trim trying to force me back to where I was set as soon as I activated the ap no matter how much pressure I apply. I end up having to disable the ap and recenter the trim to regain control of the aircraft.

 

I also always kept my speedbrake out in the pattern once I've entered the break as prescribed but now it's just not possible. With the brake out it's requiring constant full throttle just to keep from dropping like a rock an the trim settings required to maintain on speed aoa are completely different. Something with the FM update today has really made things wacky. That said with the speed brake in it felt super smooth and easy to bring in. :helpsmilie:

 

This thread has been marked [no bug] but either something was way wrong before or its way wrong now. Seems unlikely that a corrupt install would be causing the same issue for multiple users so something else must be triggering it if it isnt happening for everyone.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Talonx1

[asr37]

I am experiencing the same funky AP issues.

[Ramsay]

So knowing this new information, if you engage and set the altitude hold, then move the stick in the pitch direction, does your A/P Ref light come back on?

 

Your trim system seems to be doing what mine is currently doing, so I'd be interested to know if your Alt hold behaves like mine does.

AFAIK my auto-pilot behaves like yours i.e. pitch trim is not adjustable with 'attitude hold' enabled - the trim hat has no effect on pitch trim and moving the stick, the stab trim moves to counter the pilot's pitch input (see previous video).

 

The A/P Ref lamp, lights if

 

• 'Altitude Hold' is turned off and on

• Large roll angles cause A/P Ref. to drop (Altitude Hold can be re-engaged by the A/P Ref./NWS button).

• If I pull back on the stick quickly, causing a large, sudden pitch up and the A/P Ref. to drop (Altitude Hold can be re-engaged by the A/P Ref./NWS button) - however there's risk the large auto-pilot counter trim down (trying to maintain attitude) will cause issues (pitch trim isn't adjustable using the trim hat with the A/P enabled), so it's better to disable the A/P, adjust and re-engage as req'ed, YMMV.

 

Tested Open Beta 2.5.5.34108

[Eldur]

But I guess not enough people are experiencing this.

 

 

Are you using FFB as well? I can't test it at the moment and the last time I did the A/P didn't work at all with FFB unless the stick was naturally centered which rarely ever is the case.

[jonsky7]

Are you using FFB as well? I can't test it at the moment and the last time I did the A/P didn't work at all with FFB unless the stick was naturally centered which rarely ever is the case.

 

No, I use a VKB Gunfighter Pro, is also the same with a Virpil WarBRD base and Warthog stick.

[IronMike]

this is very odd. I first hoped this would be a FFB issue (if we can isolate, we can fix), but apparently it is not restricted to that.

 

All I can say is that it works 100% on my side (and everyone I talked to recently when flying with them) - which of course doesn't mean that I don't believe you.

 

Please be so kind and help us isolate it. All of you who get the issue please be so kind and provide us with:

 

- full system specs

 

- your dcs version

 

- your hardware and axis settings

 

- a short track file, 3 minutes just in the freeflight caucasus mission, where you reproduce the issue

 

- and if you can the flight envelope also in written, what altitude, what speed and AOA you are at.

 

Thank you!

[jonsky7]

this is very odd. I first hoped this would be a FFB issue (if we can isolate, we can fix), but apparently it is not restricted to that.

 

All I can say is that it works 100% on my side (and everyone I talked to recently when flying with them) - which of course doesn't mean that I don't believe you.

 

Please be so kind and help us isolate it. All of you who get the issue please be so kind and provide us with:

 

- full system specs

 

- your dcs version

 

- your hardware and axis settings

 

- a short track file, 3 minutes just in the freeflight caucasus mission, where you reproduce the issue

 

- and if you can the flight envelope also in written, what altitude, what speed and AOA you are at.

 

Thank you!

 

It is very odd, so track file attached.

 

Track file

Free flight F-14B,

Start at 15,000ft,

Original pitch = The Pitch of the aircraft at the time of engaging the AP Engage switch.

a/c = aircraft

 

Set AP Engage switch to engage, open controls indicator

Push stick forward slowly, the trim fights the stick so that a/c returns to original pitch (shown by controls indicator)

Then release the stick, large pitch up movement caused by trim position, captured with stick, a/c returns to original pitch.

Pull stick back hard and release, a/c returns to original pitch.

Show roll attitude hold working perfectly

Engage ALT HOLD mode, set with NWS button, AP REF light extinguished

Pull stick back, no AP REF light, A/C returns to altitude at pressing NWS button,

Show AP REF Lights comes back on with roll change

Turn off alt hold mode

Show that if pitch is applied by stick, and then ANY roll movement is applied, aircraft WILL hold new pitch and roll.

 

This last part might shed some light perhaps. If any roll movement is applied the new pitch setting will hold, but it will not if pure forward or aft stick is used.

 

Pitch Axis setting

 

Roll Axis settings

 

 

Specs

DCS 2.5.5.34108

Intel 8086K @5.1GHz

32GB G.Skill DDR4 1800Mhz

Asus ROG Maximus X Hero

Nvidia GTX2080TI

Samsung Nvme Windows 10 Pro

Samsung Nvme (separate drive DCS)

Track IR5

VKB Gunfighter MCG Pro

TM Warthog Throttle

autopilot2.trk

[IronMike]

Thank you for the valuable input! We will disect the data and see what could cause this. It is very odd that it works for most, while for you it doesn't. Hopefully we will find a fix soon.

[jonsky7]

Anybody with this issue find a way to resolve it yet?

[Thewarblade]

I have the same Problem. New install of DCS or F-14 wouldn't Help.

 

Gesendet von meinem SM-G975F mit Tapatalk

[jonsky7]

Still the same for me in latest update, anyone else?