Velocity vector (FPM) reference

[achitan]

Hello guys,

 

 

so I've bought the F-14 a week ago and have been reading and training since. All is going well but I have a question about the velocity vector.

 

 

So in Landing HUD mode there is the Flight Path Marker or velocity vector. But what is the reference of that marker? Normally, that would reference to the pitch ladder in the sense that putting it on the horizon line would mean leveled flight, +5 degree would mean a 5 degree climbing flight path angle, etc. etc., just like in modern jets.

 

 

The image bellow shows a screenshot from my on-speed training, in straight and leveled flight with the FPM on the +5 deg. pitch line. The FPM is not blinking or anything like it is outside of the HUD or anything like that. The manual is not clear but is the FPM just showing where you are going to and no normalization to the horizon is being done or is it wrongly implemented in this build (stable DCS release of today, no beta).

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Adrian

[razo+r]

You can trim/adjust the pitch ladder up and down. The knob is located on the right side of the DDI I believe.

[Chuck_Henry]

The FPM is in reference purely to what you actually see outside the jet. If you put it on the numbers, you're going to touch down on the numbers. It doesn't matter how the pitch ladder is trimmed at all.

[Strikeeagle345]

First off, the HUD is not a primary flight instrument.

 

Second, dont adjust the hud pitch ladder based off of the VV, it is slaved the the aircraft symbol. Also, it will change with altitude since it is not slaved to the VV.

 

Use your instruments and VDI.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Strikeeagle345

[achitan]

hmmm...thank you all for your answers, however...

 

 

You can trim/adjust the pitch ladder up and down. The knob is located on the right side of the DDI I believe.

 

 

Yes I bet one can, but it is "trimmed" by the INS so you should never do that unless you really want to screw it up.

 

 

 

The FPM is in reference purely to what you actually see outside the jet. If you put it on the numbers, you're going to touch down on the numbers. It doesn't matter how the pitch ladder is trimmed at all.

 

 

And herein lies the problem, if it is referenced to what is outside, than putting in on the horizon (0-line pitch ladder) should give you leveled flight. It surely does not in my picture and my flights.

 

 

First off, the HUD is not a primary flight instrument.

 

Second, don't adjust the HUD pitch ladder based off of the VV, it is slaved the the aircraft symbol. Also, it will change with altitude since it is not slaved to the VV.

 

Use your instruments and VDI.

 

 

I think the "it is slaved to the aircraft (wing) symbol" applies best here. This makes me think of two possibilities for my conundrum:

1) the FPM is not as advanced as for more modern jets

2) the FPM is alright, the 0-pitch line is not the horizon in the F-14

 

 

The 1st possibility is doubtful. The second one is more apparent... If I look at the difference between the aircraft symbol (wing symbol) and the horizon line I get a 10 degree angle. The AOA however is definitely 15 units as confirmed by the donut and the E-mark on the wing symbol. 15 units add up to 15 degrees (deg = -10+units*50/30 as of the manual).

 

 

However, the wing symbol is only on the +10 degree pitch line. So either the wings are skewed 5 degrees up from the actual horizon (0-vertical and longitudinal components on the INS gyros) which would solve...everything. Or something is wrong.

 

 

Thank you all again for your answers, this is a super mod I bought :D.

[r4y30n]

The pitch ladder is offset upwards from the actual horizon and has no relation to the FPM. The FPM is also not as advanced as more modern jets in terms of overall accuracy.

[uhntissbaby111]

Turn the HUD off, don’t even bother with LDG mode. I fly all my approaches the HUD off and just use the gauges/AoA indexer. My flying got way smoother because of it

[achitan]

r4y30n, thanks for the confirmation. So eyes on the VVI! I just realized that the FPM only shows up in LDG mode so it is just a visual aid to where you're putting the bird on. Thanks again!

 

 

 

uhntiss, kind of like the MiG-21...it's quite hard to come from the Mirage or the F-16 (BMS) and see a functional HUD and not use it :D. What you're proposing though is to try and get some sort of references on angles first (where should the rwy be in reference to...something for on-glide, etc. etc.). The good news is that the Tomcat is full of visual cues around the canopy :)). Good advice that spawned an idea for a future training mission :D. Thanks!

[Below Average]

I have gone back and forth with the hud trim a few time and what I now do it trim the watermark W to the 0 degree pitch ladder on deck so longs I am not parked on a incline or decline (never seen it in DCS). The Hud in the Hornet is the primary instrument and not in the Tomcat.

[achitan]

Well Above Average ;), that actually sounds super-logical. Should work even better on land. I'll experiment with the ladder to fit my needs. The only hurdle I have to jump is my mindset that the pitch ladder is untouchable after INS line-up. Not being a primary instrument should make the transition easier :D. Thanks!

[S. Low]

Turn the HUD off, don’t even bother with LDG mode. I fly all my approaches the HUD off and just use the gauges/AoA indexer. My flying got way smoother because of it

 

Interesting... is this a normal thing that pilots did? I've seen video of hornet pilots landing with HUD on. Just preference?

[Strikeeagle345]

Tomcat pilots did this, due to the HUD being pretty much useless. The upgraded Tomcats with the Sparrowhawk HUDs and the Hornets could use theirs as it was considered a primary flight instrument.

 

The Tomcat we have, does not have the upgraded HUD.

[draconus]

It may be OK to fly that way if you already have dozens of jet hours but I could not imagine new pilots managing it. The ingame fpm is good enough to use it and can save any rookie's life.

[*Aquila*]

New pilots should learn how to fly a plane without a HUD. The ability to use primary instruments instead of a HUD is a game changer in terms of proficiency. And one should practice IFR by night without a HUD. Really. :)

[Xenovia]

one should practice IFR by night without a HUD. Really. :)

 

With or without NVG's?

[*Aquila*]

With or without NVG's?

Without. Just as civilian pilots do. First you learn the basics as do the civilians, then you learn the military specific things.

 

All military pilots first learn to fly with general aviation planes which have no HUD, FLIR, NVG, etc. Most virtual fighter pilots do otherwise and can find themselves in trouble because something is lacking :)

[draconus]

All military pilots first learn to fly with general aviation planes which have no HUD, FLIR, NVG, etc. Most virtual fighter pilots do otherwise and can find themselves in trouble because something is lacking :)

Yes, but IRL it is dictated by money and risk mostly while in game you can start learning your favourite jet at once.

[*Aquila*]

Which doesn’t mean you don’t need to learn some basics to get the most pleasure the module can give you :)

[draconus]

Which doesn’t mean you don’t need to learn some basics to get the most pleasure the module can give you :)

Yeah, I agree but it depends on what drives you, i.e. if you're just happy throwing Phoenixes around why waste time on other systems ;)

[*Aquila*]

Yeah, I agree but it depends on what drives you, i.e. if you're just happy throwing Phoenixes around why waste time on other systems ;)

I agree. I make suggestions based on my personal experience. And of course, everyone is free to do what they want according to their affinities. That said, the F-14 is a fantastic plane for a virtual pilot to learn how to fly with his eyes down 100% of the time except the last 12 seconds before landing, and his HUD switched off :)

[S. Low]

I have a much easier time landing on a carrier just looking out the window and ignoring hud and all flight instruments than I do (so far) in learning how to do a proper case one with proper on speed aoa and everything else. All the time flying helos I guess, I dunno. But it's really aggravating going from 2 and 3 wire landings to crashing half the time because I'm trying to match the case 1 step for step using mixture of instruments and HUD.

 

Basically the thing that gets me is the aoa and how slow youre going generally. I know some pilots land faster than this. Makes me want to do it my own way lol

[Jester2138]

Relying on a HUD gives you bad habits IMO.

 

You only really need AoA or speed instruments to land properly. Make sure you understand those very well and can land with just that before using shortcuts like HUDs and velocity vectors.

[johnv2pt0]

Technique only: When departing the boat and staying below 500' for 7nm, I'll use the time straight and level to trim the HUD. Autopilot altitude hold helps. When inbound for the boat / airfield, once again while in level flight I check/trim the HUD.

 

Understand the tools in the jet (they're there for a reason) and use them appropriately if you want to be as successful as possible. Internet warriors abound ~

[Shadow_1stVFW]

Technique only: When departing the boat and staying below 500' for 7nm, I'll use the time straight and level to trim the HUD. Autopilot altitude hold helps. When inbound for the boat / airfield, once again while in level flight I check/trim the HUD.

 

Understand the tools in the jet (they're there for a reason) and use them appropriately if you want to be as successful as possible. Internet warriors abound ~

 

Not my flex, but that's not a bad plan.

 

The HUD as implemented isn't UNreliable enough to not be used during any phase of flight, change my mind.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Shadow_1stVFW