P51 not fun due to so many problems.

[grafspee]

I love how every time an American plays a video game and hops into their ride, if it doesn't immediately blare the Star Spangled Banner while pwning Nazis/Commies they decry it as biased/broken/imbalanced/wrong. P-51 is a historically overrated aircraft, good for it's SPECIFIC DESIGNED ROLE, but undeserving of the mythological reverence it gets from ''some circles''. And its trigonometry is decidedly naive.

 

I disagree here.

Problem is not with US plane, we have problem with British engine model in DCS. Merlin was exceptional engine very tough, DB605 suffered low oil pressure which wasn't solved until end of war, which often end up with blowing up connection rod through the side of the engine due to excessive oil foaming at high alt after 50 hours, Merlin in Russian service life time was about 200-300 h in western front up to 100-200h more.

Based on engine limitation placard i see it like this engine is limited to combined 15min military power and 5min WEP power for a single flight or engine is allowed to use military power for 15minutes and 5 min WEP in a single continous use but is not limited how many times this continous use can be used. There is no aditional information which would to disunite this 2 time limits. So it mean 15min and 5 min total time for flight or 15min and 5 min limit for single continois use, w/o limiting total time in whole flight.

Just immagine real time situation, one of the pilot from formation used wep in engagement "ok guys we are more then 15 min form home base i used wep so my engine will die any time say my wife that i love her". Next day after lost of half of the p-51s available for western front US command banned use of wep for every single plane.

I totally agree that engine will blow up after operation at wrong power setting wrong mixture position if available wrong rpm to high mp for given rpm, but if pilot use engine properly as it is in manual i don't see why engine should blow up anyway.

Right now engine fail after WEP use looks like that, engine seizure time frame is different it can blow up very quick, i stared engine warmed up to 40c oil took off at 61" climbed to 5k ft at 46" than i hit 61" and after a while i engaged wep engine seizured(this type of engien fail makes 'bang' sound and engine stops imidietly) after 3 min 26 s with stop watch in my hand,

Another time i made it to 4min 30s disengaged wep but didnt make to airfield engine "banged", another time engine banged at me after good 15-20 minutes siting on airfield with engine turned off, So when you use wep and return to base you may not notice it. I have no ide why any one woudl use WEP doing A2G sorties, use wep only when there is no other option oftten in get away scenarios,

Like this one

Edited December 21, 2019 by grafspee

[Mars Exulte]

Can we all take a moment to appreciare how awesome 1940s manuals were?

[Weta43]

All I get from this is:

1. You don't like Americans.

You think he’s hating on the USA from inside the USA ? (Surely the US ? ‘America’ is too big a region for someone to hate all of it)

 

Maybe he just thinks there is this one aspect of the culture of the USA that could do with some improvement, but likes the people just fine ?

 

I’m not saying I don’t love my partner when I say I don’t agree with her about her attitude to instruction manuals...

[Weta43]

Can we all take a moment to appreciare how awesome 1940s manuals were?

 

They are fantastic !!!

[Snapage]

You think he’s hating on the USA from inside the USA ? (Surely the US ? ‘America’ is too big a region for someone to hate all of it)

 

Maybe he just thinks there is this one aspect of the culture of the USA that could do with some improvement, but likes the people just fine ?

 

I’m not saying I don’t love my partner when I say I don’t agree with her about her attitude to instruction manuals...

 

 

zhukov032186 has not disagreed with anything. He has just come into the thread and complained about Americans.

 

 

zhukov032186 made a few generalized anti American statements. Which is anti American. "Every time an American plays a video game" includes ALL Americans. I don't know how it's not an anti American generalization.

 

 

You should be telling him, not me, that "Surely the US ? ‘America’ is too big a region for someone to hate all of it".

 

 

Anyway, the WEP has never worked and I don't know why people like zhukov032186 think there is something wrong with people wanting it fixed.

 

 

WEP is not the only problem. You cant do a gear up emergency landing in the P51D because the pilot dies when the air scoop takes enough damage. Its also the most fragile of the WW2 planes by far. Any damage instantly takes the engine out(prop governor) most of the time. Why do the other aircraft(spit,109,FWD9) take so much more punishment? They use liquid cooled V12 engines as well but they almost never lose their propeller governor or engine.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Snapage

[grafspee]

[msalama]

how awesome 1940s manuals were?

 

Compared to the shite we have now? Fahkin hell. Those guys had a sense of humour and went 100% Disney because they KNEW folks'll pay attention to that. Alas, those days are gone forever...

[NineLine]

All I get from this is:

 

 

1. You don't like Americans

 

I think he is from Texas... and I am pretty sure he is legally required to love his country (State Law, I swear to god) and have a US flag tattooed on his backside at birth :)

[msalama]

a gear up emergency landing in the P51D

 

All warbirds suffer from this currently so this is not a valid example of DCS having an evil anti-American and/or anti-Pony twist. Happened to me in the Dora just the same yesterday when I landed rough having received some combat damage - the gear went, the plane fell down on its belly and *BANG* I was dead. As to why that happened, I've no clue.

Edited December 21, 2019 by msalama

[msalama]

(State Law, I swear to god)

 

He's obviously a traitor. Eats those starspangledbanners or whatsit for brekkies.

[Magic Zach]

Compared to the shite we have now? Fahkin hell. Those guys had a sense of humour and went 100% Disney because they KNEW folks'll pay attention to that. Alas, those days are gone forever...

It's a damn shame honestly. Now it's all words words words and diagrams. Could at least squeeze in some goofy cartoons with deliberately memorable quips. Might make me learn the F/A-18 faster lol

 

 

I think from now on when I fly the P-51 I'm going to use WEP, to gather data on the fly.

[Snapage]

All warbirds suffer from this currently so this is not a valid example of DCS having an evil anti-American and/or anti-Pony twist. Happened to me in the Dora just the same yesterday when I landed rough having received some combat damage - the gear went, the plane fell down on its belly and *BANG* I was dead. As to why that happened, I've no clue.

 

 

I think what is happening is the fuselage takes damage as you slide across the ground and when it takes enough damage the pilot dies.

 

 

It is not so bad in the spit and 109 because the flaps keep the fuselage off the ground. That is what I think anyway.

[zcrazyx]

zhukov032186 has not disagreed with anything. He has just come into the thread and complained about Americans.

 

 

zhukov032186 made a few generalized anti American statements. Which is anti American. "Every time an American plays a video game" includes ALL Americans. I don't know how it's not an anti American generalization.

 

 

You should be telling him, not me, that "Surely the US ? ‘America’ is too big a region for someone to hate all of it".

 

 

Anyway, the WEP has never worked and I don't know why people like zhukov032186 think there is something wrong with people wanting it fixed.

 

 

WEP is not the only problem. You cant do a gear up emergency landing in the P51D because the pilot dies when the air scoop takes enough damage. Its also the most fragile of the WW2 planes by far. Any damage instantly takes the engine out(prop governor) most of the time. Why do the other aircraft(spit,109,FWD9) take so much more punishment? They use liquid cooled V12 engines as well but they almost never lose their propeller governor or engine.

 

Spitfire does not take a lot of punishment, engine wise either the pilot pushes it too hard and blows the radiator lines or if the plane gets hit normally it either explodes or the wings just sheer off.

[Mars Exulte]

It's a damn shame honestly. Now it's all words words words and diagrams. Could at least squeeze in some goofy cartoons with deliberately memorable quips. Might make me learn the F/A-18 faster lol

 

 

I think from now on when I fly the P-51 I'm going to use WEP, to gather data on the fly.

 

Ever see Panzer Tales or whatever it's called?

 

@Nine

I am indeed Texan. People fell for trollbait, which should have been obvious by the tone. That said, the overall gist of my commentary was sincere and referring to scattered commentary in the thread, and common internet forum tropes.

 

People are always like ''HURDUR PEEFIDDYWON DA BESTEST OF DA WAGH'' and it always annoys me. It was good, but not outstanding in any one category, certainly not to a ''war winning'' extent (which was largely a logistical victory, not technological).

 

It kept the bombers from getting shot up and was somewhat better at that job than the P-38s/P-47s that preceded it, however they DID provide long range cover before it came along so even if it never existed the result would have been the same. There were faster aircraft, more maneuverable aircraft, and better armed aircraft.

 

Another pet peeve of mine is people saying P-39s/P-40s sucked. They did not. The US didn't drop them because it sucked, they dropped them because they were short range and low altitude. #1 was a problem for Europe and especially Pacific, and #2 was a problem for escorting bomber swarms trying to avoid being blown apart by flak. Otherwise the aircraft would not have served with distinction and been popular in MULTIPLE other air forces. Nobody says the Hurricane sucked, yet it was inferior across the board to BOTH planes.

 

I digress, point is, P-51 fanbois are a peeve of mine.

[Snapage]

Spitfire does not take a lot of punishment, engine wise either the pilot pushes it too hard and blows the radiator lines or if the plane gets hit normally it either explodes or the wings just sheer off.

 

 

The spitfire, FW190 and 109 all don't take engine damage easily. On the other hand the P51D takes engine damage most of the time from very little punishment. This combined with WEP not being usable reliably is very frustrating.

 

 

Flying the 109, FW190, spitfire or even the I16 is a lot of fun but the P51D is just a frustrating mess.

[grafspee]

E There were faster aircraft, more maneuverable aircraft, and better armed aircraft.

 

 

Actually P-51 version B/C were pretty darn fast compare to any axis planes, and im not saying about 5-10 mph i'm saying about 40 mph faster, P-51A with Alison v1710 were quite good too up to medium alt range.

[grafspee]

I wish we would have this in our planes

throttle response fail or engine cuting out due to overcooling.

[Hiromachi]

We already have enough engine failures. I yesterday had 3 engine failures out of nowhere, when crusing. No sudden throttle movements, no abuse of engine for prolonged time and no WEP use. Engine just instantly seized out of nowhere. Even temperatures were fine.

 

I hope to get more feedback before we head into more failure terriroty. Frequently I'm scratching my head as to why something happened and if I did something wrong since none of my gauges indicates anything out of order.

[grafspee]

We already have enough engine failures. I yesterday had 3 engine failures out of nowhere, when cursing. No sudden throttle movements, no abuse of engine for prolonged time and no WEP use. Engine just instantly seized out of nowhere. Even temperatures were fine.

 

I hope to get more feedback before we head into more failure territory. Frequently I'm scratching my head as to why something happened and if I did something wrong since none of my gauges indicates anything out of order.

 

If you have flown P-51 seizure(loud bang) of the engine is only in case of over boosting.

[Hiromachi]

No its not. Or not only. 44" / 2700 RPM is max continous rating as far as I'm aware.

And I already stated that I wasnt overboosting.

[grafspee]

No its not. Or not only. 44" / 2700 RPM is max continous rating as far as I'm aware.

And I already stated that I wasnt overboosting.

 

I personally don't have any engine problems if i don't go in to WER range.

[Hiromachi]

Do you fly online ? How often do you fly ? I've been flying P-51 since 2014 pretty much constantly (at least a few times a month) and I can assure you there are other problems and failures. Rest of my squadron can testify on that since pretty much everyone has experienced them in some shape or form.

 

Also because of that I do not use WEP anymore. Ever.

[DartzIRL]

I'm reminded of doing track days on my car.

 

 

 

The manufacturer says that the engine redline temperature is somewhere around 118 - that's the point where damage is all but guaranteed. The engine housings warp and it's basically a boat anchor after that.

 

 

 

But, failure of the water seals starts becoming possible at around 105 - that's where the seal material begins to lose resilience. Sustaining these temperatures will increase the chance of damage - but doesn't guarantee it.

 

 

 

Amusingly, the engine gauges read normal at this temperature and all the way up to around 110C.

 

 

Anyway, there's a 15 degree window from where failure is possible, to where it is likely.

 

 

 

The car is also fitted with a cooling system that is somewhat inadequate. It'll do 7000-7500rpm pulls all day, but cavitation sets in between 7500 and 9500. A few second-third gear runs on a tight track will have the cooling temperatures spiking rapidly - 1 hard lap is the limit.

 

 

 

Knowing this, I monitored the temperatures - and the highest temperature I logged was 108 degrees. On a 28 degree day. Not too high.

 

 

 

The engine failed over a year and 20,000k later due to damage done on that trackday. The seals had been degraded and coolant seeping into the oil slowly thinned it between changes and killed the main bearings.

 

 

Engine limits are a funny thing, in that regard.

 

 

 

Exceeding them doesn't necessarily mean immediate failure, but the longer they're exceeded, the higher chance of failure. Random death isn't really the best from a gameplay standpoint - and it seems like the modelling is tuned to be fairly severe on it - but it is realistic.

[grafspee]

Do you fly online ? How often do you fly ? I've been flying P-51 since 2014 pretty much constantly (at least a few times a month) and I can assure you there are other problems and failures. Rest of my squadron can testify on that since pretty much everyone has experienced them in some shape or form.

 

Also because of that I do not use WEP anymore. Ever.

 

I fly everyday in aerobatic server sometimes in Burning skies.

I burned whole internal fuel capacity in single flight couple of times, i have flown across Caucasian map in p-51 countless times already :)

In long cruise environment i cant find any better plane then p-51 :)

I just recalled that i had one engine seizure during t/o but reason was that while i was starting up i had my throttle opened too much and engine after start up burst in to high rpm in no time,i exceeded max oil pressure because of it(went over 200lbs/sq), this was the reason why my engine died.

But if you keep oil pressure below 150lbs/sq it will be good

Edited December 22, 2019 by grafspee

[Magic Zach]

If it happened in real life, we should get it in a simulator such as this, Hiro. It doesn't matter if one feels like the 51 has enough ways to kill the engine.

 

Actually what are the reasons (that you know of) for the 1650-7 busting for you or your squad? I've got a mind to do some testing on the 51 when I get the chance