The J-17... Did any one see that coming?

[Boneski]

I sure didn't! Looks sweet though! I look forward to other Chinese fighters for sure.

[Harlikwin]

Well china doesnt actually use it. Pakistan does tho.

[Ziptie]

Well it was announced a bit before the release, so there was some time to be advised. Won’t be one of my purchases, but many will I’d bet.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

[Top Jockey]

Well it was announced a bit before the release, so there was some time to be advised. Won’t be one of my purchases, but many will I’d bet.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

 

Just mere curiousity, which aspects don't you like / or don't appeal to you in this bird ?

 

I may very well acquire it in the future, as although I don't know much about it yet I've been finding it interesting.

 

However bought the Mirage 2000C yesterday, updated DCS World to last open beta and... obviously went to fly the Mirage against the JF-17 as AI, both of them with 2 x A-A missiles and 60 % internal fuel.

... and I got surprised by the JF-17 BFM capabilities.

 

Don't know if because of the current AI flight model, or because the JF-17 is a small and lightweight fighter, but it showed VERY good sustained turn rate and very nimble turns.

 

In terms of BFM performance (high sustained turn rate and small turn radius), I must say it recalls me the JAS-39 Gripen AI jet from a past sim (Super EF2000).

 

Aesteticaly wise, I do find the aircraft prety, only the engine air intakes don't feel much right in the overall design - but this is merely in the "looks" department.

[Ziptie]

Own the F/A-18C, A10C, and the F-14B. Have very little time in the latter, massive time in the first two. Awaiting the 18 to get closer to finished before purchasing any additional modules from ED, and honestly - beyond happy with the selection available in my hangar. Can do anything needed, aside from helo ops, and just can’t justify any other for myself. Merely a personal preference.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

[Top Jockey]

Own the F/A-18C, A10C, and the F-14B. Have very little time in the latter, massive time in the first two. Awaiting the 18 to get closer to finished before purchasing any additional modules from ED, and honestly - beyond happy with the selection available in my hangar. Can do anything needed, aside from helo ops, and just can’t justify any other for myself. Merely a personal preference.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Don (callsign Ziptie)

 

Ok I completely understand.

[shaHeen-1]

Mirage was my first module and Ive had it for more than a year now and really enjoyed its simple yet capable systems, performance and the campaign was the best. And after getting JF17 a couple days ago, I don't know when I'll even look at the mirage again. Thunder is just so much better as a module in my opinion even excluding the whole SD10 op issue. I hope Baltic Dragon will consider making a campaign for JF-17.

[Top Jockey]

Mirage was my first module and Ive had it for more than a year now and really enjoyed its simple yet capable systems, performance and the campaign was the best. And after getting JF17 a couple days ago, I don't know when I'll even look at the mirage again. Thunder is just so much better as a module in my opinion even excluding the whole SD10 op issue. I hope Baltic Dragon will consider making a campaign for JF-17.

 

Interesting to know that.

 

I've been reading here about the JF-17 (and several others I don't have yet), and I've also seen the thread about the SD10 you mention.

 

My 2 cents on the SD10 implementation in DCS:

- by me every weapon should be as close as IRL;

- if by chance other aircraft's weapons aren't up to par with IRL today, then they should be revised;

- and not nerf down the SD10 which many people says it's currently behaving as IRL, neither for the purposes of balancing or whatever.

 

Regarding the JF-17 BFM maneuverability aspects I've mentioned, do you feel it's that easy to win against Mirage, F/A-18, F-16, etc, or did I catch a standard "high powered AI flight model behavior" yesterday ?

 

Thank you.

[Terrorban]

I didn’t just see it coming, I followed the development ever since I joined DCS 2 years ago. The thing is, everyone is hating on it because it was designed to be a replacement for F-16 for Pakistan. So it makes sense that it would have similar or better performance in certain aspects to that aircraft. This point is hard to accept for most people. Certain you tubers are even calling it cheap version of F-16.

 

Currently in DCS community, it has fallen victim of USA vs China political fight. A lot of Americans will be quite negative towards anything Chinese right now. You can see that with their replies and the wording they use to describe it.

 

It is a very capable aircraft in DCS. Deka has done a really good job simulating its performance. The fact that it can carry so many different weapons and each one of them has been simulated to the best of their ability should have been all the DCS fans should have asked for but there is so much negativity towards it. It confuses me.

[Top Jockey]

I didn’t just see it coming, I followed the development ever since I joined DCS 2 years ago. The thing is, everyone is hating on it because it was designed to be a replacement for F-16 for Pakistan. So it makes sense that it would have similar or better performance in certain aspects to that aircraft. This point is hard to accept for most people. Certain you tubers are even calling it cheap version of F-16.

 

Currently in DCS community, it has fallen victim of USA vs China political fight. A lot of Americans will be quite negative towards anything Chinese right now. You can see that with their replies and the wording they use to describe it.

 

It is a very capable aircraft in DCS. Deka has done a really good job simulating its performance. The fact that it can carry so many different weapons and each one of them has been simulated to the best of their ability should have been all the DCS fans should have asked for but there is so much negativity towards it. It confuses me.

 

Not everyone.

 

Speaking for myself, actually I've been finding what I read about this aircraft very interesting.

Regarding SD10 missile implementation, I also agree that it should be kept as close as IRL as possible.

 

About maneuverability / BFM capabilities, could you share some light on my doubts at post #4 ?

Thank you.

[shaHeen-1]

Its definitely strong. check out hellreign's dogfight video vs F15:

 

i haven't had the chance to fly it properly myself yet but ive heard its very capable when you fly low and slow.

 

what makes me slightly uneasy about this module is the drag. I can't shake off the feeling that maybe its a bit lower than other modules. i know there was a bug on buddy_spike's testing stream where after you fired BRM1 the drag would fall to a ridiculously low value and you could do mach 6 and stuff.

[AeriaGloria]

Maybe I didn’t post enough pictures... I have a couple hundred more....

[shaHeen-1]

Maybe I didn’t post enough pictures... I have a couple hundred more....

 

Bring it. I'm ready.

[Top Jockey]

Its definitely strong. check out hellreign's dogfight video vs F15:

 

i haven't had the chance to fly it properly myself yet but ive heard its very capable when you fly low and slow.

 

what makes me slightly uneasy about this module is the drag. I can't shake off the feeling that maybe its a bit lower than other modules. i know there was a bug on buddy_spike's testing stream where after you fired BRM1 the drag would fall to a ridiculously low value and you could do mach 6 and stuff.

 

Very good! thank you for the video.

Both the F-15 and the JF-17 force 1 circle fights, and then... brrrrrt.

 

I can tell, yesterday even with the MiG-29 (its roll authority handicap at high alpha is disapointing) and the Hornet i've had difficulties to shot down the JF-17 in dogfight.

(Then again, it was against Excelent skill AI.)

[Terrorban]

Its definitely strong. check out hellreign's dogfight video vs F15:

 

i haven't had the chance to fly it properly myself yet but ive heard its very capable when you fly low and slow.

 

what makes me slightly uneasy about this module is the drag. I can't shake off the feeling that maybe its a bit lower than other modules. i know there was a bug on buddy_spike's testing stream where after you fired BRM1 the drag would fall to a ridiculously low value and you could do mach 6 and stuff.

 

 

That rocket bug was fixed before release. Additionally, I really think that people underestimate the performance of this jet. :)

 

[unknown]

That rocket bug was fixed before release. Additionally, I really think that people underestimate the performance of this jet. :)

 

There was a bug(fixed internally/you can still try it for yourself), you could fly at low altitude forever. I had a full A-A loadout, thrust to idle and went on at 10-50ft with ~260kn. I couldn't get slower.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=256786

 

I'm looking forward to test this little beauty more next weekend.

[Terrorban]

I apologize then. I know about this bug but I thought he was talking about the overall performance at low speed.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Terrorban
Typos

[Mad_Max2]

I'm really liking this jet. If your not a fan of flying as China or Pakistan just wait for the template to come out. I see this jet as being a good candidate for fictional scenarios in countries that don't fly it. For example Georgia purchases some, allowing a scenario to play out without being tied to a particular coalition. Might not be realistic, but it does add some options.

[Top Jockey]

edit - moved for main thread

Edited December 8, 2019 by Top Jockey

[Terrorban]

Hardly anyone is hating on it and it is a cheap F-16 like aircraft. As far as I'm aware it was designed to complement the F-16, not replace it.

 

 

 

Do you have some sort of inferiority complex, because I don't see anything like that at all? All the reviews have been pretty positive. As a matter of fact, the only negativity I've seen in this section is from a couple of forum users that appear to be big fans of the aircraft in real life, somewhat ironically.

 

 

 

Are we on the same forum? The majority of people are browsing this section because they bought the aircraft and either want to talk about it or post/see bug reports. If people have criticism over the product, they have a right to speak their mind in order for the developer to take that into consideration when deciding if they need to improve the product.

 

 

 

 

Mate, just because you have your scope so narrow, don't call me a liar. If you read the comments on youtube, watch streams, listen to people on discord, as well as pre release forum discussions, it is quite obvious what I am saying. But this just proves how guys in this forum just spam paragraphs without having any idea what is what.

 

Anyway, lets stick to topic and not start an arguement. Like I mentioned earlier, I have been following the development and now I am looking up on tutorials and discussing the jet with people online. There is quite a bit of negativity attached to it but now with more people owning it, it is dying down slowly.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Terrorban
typos

[Terrorban]

How is anyone supposed to know you were talking about things not on this site, without you mentioning that? Context matters.

 

I don't have time or the interest to patrol the entire internet for in depth commentary on the DCS version of the JF-17.

 

 

Yet you bothered to reply without taking a moment and think. I clearly said DCS community and DCS fans in my original comment. I doubt the community exists only in this forum. Anyways, I will not argue any further.

 

On another note, @Top Jokey, The biggest limiting factor of the jet in dogfight is the fuel limit. Afterburner really drinks the fuel and you wont be keeping it on for much long.

[Top Jockey]

...

 

On another note, @Top Jokey, The biggest limiting factor of the jet in dogfight is the fuel limit. Afterburner really drinks the fuel and you wont be keeping it on for much long.

 

And you're right.

Actually in one of the engagements consisting mainly in 2 circle fights, the AI pilot ejected without ever being hit, after quite a while without any events.

So I guess he must have been out of fuel as I was almost over also.

 

(Moved the post for the main thread.)

[GrEaSeLiTeNiN]

I didn’t just see it coming, I followed the development ever since I joined DCS 2 years ago. The thing is, everyone is hating on it because it was designed to be a replacement for F-16 for Pakistan. So it makes sense that it would have similar or better performance in certain aspects to that aircraft. This point is hard to accept for most people. Certain you tubers are even calling it cheap version of F-16.

 

Currently in DCS community, it has fallen victim of USA vs China political fight. A lot of Americans will be quite negative towards anything Chinese right now. You can see that with their replies and the wording they use to describe it.

 

It is a very capable aircraft in DCS. Deka has done a really good job simulating its performance. The fact that it can carry so many different weapons and each one of them has been simulated to the best of their ability should have been all the DCS fans should have asked for but there is so much negativity towards it. It confuses me.

 

Yep, I have seen quite a number of bad jokes and ppl teasing the JF-17. Mostly on FB, YouTube, Hoggit and some coming from F16 diehards. They can't seem to handle success from a non-US/European fighter. That behaviour kind of tarnishes the F16 community. Anyway, Deka has done a great job and those who get the 17 should be pleased.

[flameoutme]

I really like the 'JF, and I find non-US aircraft frequently out engineering the US counter parts. The Mirage is one of my favorites it's just put together so well. Like they take what the US has done and think "how can we build a better mousetrap...". I think about the JF-17 the same way. That cockpit is layed out so cleanly. You just look at it and go Ah........

 

As far as negativity goes, I think the JF-17 is no where near the head of the class for that. The F-16 is the clear title holder for negativity with so much undone. There are even videos on that very subject. Fortunately ED is trying to bring it up to speed as fast as they can. But it still has a ways to go.

 

I personally haven't witnessed bigotry about China but I don't frequent other hangouts besides watching tutorial videos. It would not surprise me however.

 

But as far as the JF-17 goes, yeah!

[shaHeen-1]

Mi8 is my favourite russian tech example. it can take so much punishment and still keep going. in my opinion its the best helicopter of its class and time.