TWS AUTO

[=4c=Nikola]

Deleted

Edited March 29, 2020 by =4c=Nikola

[IRememberJeep]

Azimuth only, from what I know which is very little. :-)

 

You can bind the PB key to your keyboard. That’s what I did anyway. I bound the PB keys from RWS/TWS, range increase/decrease and Auto/Man. Unless you have room on your HOTAS then bind them to the HOTAS.

[sk000tch]

TWS requires more maintenance to employ effectively. Having a plan when you commit, having effectively sanitized, good meld procedures and adjusting volume for frame time. As range decreases, 4s is too much against maneuvering targets. You don't need, in fact you should not, stay at max scan volume at all times.

 

That said, they have a few things to work on, but its a remarkably good first implementation IMO. I have only had a few minutes to check it out, but I'm surprised they got all the scan centering modes in with EXP and RAID. A couple things don't work quick right yet, and as you are experiencing the real MCs are better are maintaining tracks. But given the current implementation is struggling with vectors, which the MC uses to predict location, that makes sense (I don't know if that's how the game works, it has perfect info, so doesn't need to do the same guesswork).

 

Three's a few things coming that will help. You're never going to engage 6 mig-29s, but strikers weighed down with tanks and anti-ship missiles? A 2-ship in formation is also ripe for TWS, frame time can be very short in that scenario. A flight with separation is more problematic, but that (and watching each other's 6) is why we use it.

 

I think people haven't gotten used to working with ranked tracks and how L&S/DT2 cycling and swapping in the hornet works yet as we haven't had those tools and/or controls, or those that we have had we haven't had a reason to. Same with hotas controls for adjust bar scan, and azimuth with hotas. So its a bit slow to use a mouse (unless you've got MFDs). Still, with some practice and further refinement I think you'll be surprised.

[IRememberJeep]

I have to agree with Sk000tch. TWS is not going to be like Wags’ tutorial video where all the enemy are lined up at the same altitude and not maneuvering. You absolutely need to adjust the bar scan to maintain. Even doing that TWS is not the radar mode for all situations.

 

I think it’s an easy system to learn but a difficult one to truly master.

 

I would definitely suggest doing what I did and bind those PBs for the DDI to make using the radar quicker. It’s next to impossible trying to use the mouse while in air combat.

[aaron886]

This is because it's only half-implemented. With an L&S, TWS AUTO should be the default mode. It's called auto because it automatically keeps the L&S and as many tracks as possible within scan volume, but right now it's not doing that.

Edited December 19, 2019 by aaron886

[falcon_120]

Then I'm going to stick with F-16, because it tracks designated target rock solid in tws. You can maneuver, target can maneuver, and its radar doesn't care, it automatically adjusts antenna az and el. It's unbelievable how weak platform is F-18 compared with F-16.

 

That's strange cause actually I find it easier to use that the F16 one, in that the Viper seems to take an eternity to detect targets in TWS and once they are there only the L&S is followed ok while the rest are constantly dissapearing.

 

On the other hand, A 4b 40 degress in azimuth with the hornet, let me maneuover aggresively and still keeps more than one target as track files. The only thing you need to take care of is scan elevation, but what i do is always leave a large room towards the ground that is where 90% of fights evolve.

 

Today I will test it more thoroughly in MP to say how effective it is.

[bonesvf103]

Coming over from an F-14 Tomcat mentality and using TWS there where you can have 20/4 or 40/2 az/bar scan, you get pretty used to managing targets in the same volume (especially since TWS-A isn't working in the Tomcat right now). So it made it easy for me to pick up TWS in the Bug.

 

 

That said, i don;t think there is too much practical use for TWS when you are on the cusp of WVR/BVR. At that point, you are now going into a dogfight situation and the pilot controlled locks are the main tool for killing the target (HACQ, uncaged Sidewinders, etc).

 

 

v6,

boNes

[BarTzi]

Try to briefly get a STT lock. From there- TWS should be on PB10 (instead of the usual PB5). It will go to TWS with AUTO scan centering activated (which is how it's done in real life)

[falcon_120]

Try to briefly get a STT lock. From there- TWS should be on PB10 (instead of the usual PB5). It will go to TWS with AUTO scan centering activated (which is how it's done in real life)

So you go stt and break lock inmediately? Never tried that

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

[BarTzi]

So you go stt and break lock inmediately? Never tried that

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

 

This is what I usually do:

 

Stay in LTWS -> mark L&S -> hit 'castle switch right' when you want to switch to STT -> wait a second and then hit PB-10 (top right corner of the DDI).

 

One less PB to hit is always good.

[Willie Nelson]

Perhaps slightly of the precise topic but can someone tell me what is the point of having the DT2 as such. I had a quick look at the new TWS implementation yesterday on the standard AMRAAN training mission and I’m not sure of the benefit of this when you could just as easily sequence through the prioritised targets one by one firing at will.

 

I’m guessing there’s a lot of strategy in the use of TWS that is not readily apparent to us weekend warriors, I’m sure all this will become more apparent in time. I would hope that when the full functionality of the radar and SA are rolled out there is a larger and more precise series of instructions/tutorials that are available.

[oldcrusty]

Try to briefly get a STT lock. From there- TWS should be on PB10 (instead of the usual PB5). It will go to TWS with AUTO scan centering activated (which is how it's done in real life)

 

Yes, I remember Superbug sim... that's the way it worked there. It doesn't here. In SB you simply had to select AUTO and the scan center would follow L&S in az and elev.

 

I like to use manual elev. control, from the habit I guess (in SB)… just watch the bracket limits v. L&S or the group.

 

btw, just did a test on 8 target (all within 1000 feet of alt. difference from each other). I was at 25k, the tgt. group was at 6k. Fired 10 Spamrams in rapid succession - all connected... and I got DFC for that:D

[Harker]

Perhaps slightly of the precise topic but can someone tell me what is the point of having the DT2 as such. I had a quick look at the new TWS implementation yesterday on the standard AMRAAN training mission and I’m not sure of the benefit of this when you could just as easily sequence through the prioritised targets one by one firing at will.

 

I’m guessing there’s a lot of strategy in the use of TWS that is not readily apparent to us weekend warriors, I’m sure all this will become more apparent in time. I would hope that when the full functionality of the radar and SA are rolled out there is a larger and more precise series of instructions/tutorials that are available.

You might want to focus on and attack two specific targets, especially if you're coordinating with a wingman. For example, you take ranked 1 and 3, he takes 2 and 4. Or you might want to sort out two targets and be sure to fire at them and only them, without having to look down at the radar scope and have to step through targets until you get the desired one.

[oldcrusty]

Perhaps slightly of the precise topic but can someone tell me what is the point of having the DT2 as such. I had a quick look at the new TWS implementation yesterday on the standard AMRAAN training mission and I’m not sure of the benefit of this when you could just as easily sequence through the prioritised targets one by one firing at will.

 

I’m guessing there’s a lot of strategy in the use of TWS that is not readily apparent to us weekend warriors, I’m sure all this will become more apparent in time. I would hope that when the full functionality of the radar and SA are rolled out there is a larger and more precise series of instructions/tutorials that are available.

 

I don't select DT2 unless I want specific tgt. on the second shot. From L&S, cycle through others using pinky. If you have L&S and DT2 pessing the pinky will cycle between them back and forward until you use cursor.

[Willie Nelson]

You might want to focus on and attack two specific targets, especially if you're coordinating with a wingman. For example, you take ranked 1 and 3, he takes 2 and 4. Or you might want to sort out two targets and be sure to fire at them and only them, without having to look down at the radar scope and have to step through targets until you get the desired one.

 

Ok, that begs the question though: does my wingman who may also be on the attack necessarily get the same rank on his trackfiles as I do?

[Jak525]

Ok, that begs the question though: does my wingman who may also be on the attack necessarily get the same rank on his trackfiles as I do?

Technically no, practically if he's in formation with you yes.

[Harker]

Ok, that begs the question though: does my wingman who may also be on the attack necessarily get the same rank on his trackfiles as I do?

I was using the rank for reference. The lead will have his ranks, the wingman might have different ranks, since he might be closer to different targets. In the simplest way, you can coordinate via radio comms like "I'll take the two on the left, you take the two on the right". And then you designate L&S and DT2 and you can be sure that you will launch on your intended targets, even if the rankings change in the meantime.

Going on a tangent: Also, swapping between the L&S and the DT2 allows you to launch a second missile against the same target in a hurry. Shoot at the first, shoot at the second, wait a few seconds and launch another AMRAAM at the first target.

I'm sure there are proper tactics developed around the use of L&S and DT2 which I am most certainly unaware of, but the way I see it, it's very useful for sorting targets and ensuring that you will be able to reliable swap between two specific targets, even if the situation changes.

[oldcrusty]

I was using the rank for reference. The lead will have his ranks, the wingman might have different ranks, since he might be closer to different targets. In the simplest way, you can coordinate via radio comms like "I'll take the two on the left, you take the two on the right". And then you designate L&S and DT2 and you can be sure that you will launch on your intended targets, even if the rankings change in the meantime.

Going on a tangent: Also, swapping between the L&S and the DT2 allows you to launch a second missile against the same target in a hurry. Shoot at the first, shoot at the second, wait a few seconds and launch another AMRAAM at the first target.

I'm sure there are proper tactics developed around the use of L&S and DT2 which I am most certainly unaware of, but the way I see it, it's very useful for sorting targets and ensuring that you will be able to reliable swap between two specific targets, even if the situation changes.

 

Well... I don't know how far ED is going into DL stuff circa '80s and '90s. I remember looking at some docs floating around online in the LOMAC days. Mostly for Viper (MLU and others) but also couple of other jets. Amraams had "buddy numbers" within the division or whatever number of jets were involved... don't remember that part. The attack was coordinated over DL.

[Willie Nelson]

Well... I don't know how far ED is going into DL stuff circa '80s and '90s. I remember looking at some docs floating around online in the LOMAC days. Mostly for Viper (MLU and others) but also couple of other jets. Amraams had "buddy numbers" within the division or whatever number of jets were involved... don't remember that part. The attack was coordinated over DL.

 

That sounds like a better system given that you would most likely be in a formation with limited weapons. “the two on the left” doesn’t sound as precise as I would have hoped for in such a dynamic environment.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Harker]

Well... I don't know how far ED is going into DL stuff circa '80s and '90s. I remember looking at some docs floating around online in the LOMAC days. Mostly for Viper (MLU and others) but also couple of other jets. Amraams had "buddy numbers" within the division or whatever number of jets were involved... don't remember that part. The attack was coordinated over DL.

 

Might be related, someone asked ED if we'd get lock lines on the SA page, similar to what the Viper's HSD has, but Wags (I think) answered that it wasn't realistic for OFP 13C that they're simulating for the Hornet. (Supposed to be OFP 13C, but we already have some stuff from later OFPs, such as JSOW compatibility, so who knows, maybe some day?)

[falcon_120]

I'm disappointed that el antenna auto adjustment is not in the hotfix. Judging by F-16, the capability is there, just not implemented in F18.

 

However, I must say that the manual mode in the F18 I find it superior to the F16 TWS, as it allows you to not loose target with an offset for one side, even more if you have a high target ageing it turns out you can cover more than lets say 40 degrees (I normally use 40 degrees 4 bars) to each side of a target by moving the TDC alternatively to each side of your L&S before a target disappear. Also the TWS in the hornet is just so much quicker than in the viper, I'm just loving it and even stopped using RWS at all, since the TWS manual mode allows you so much more tactically...

 

All in all I must say i'm quite impressed with it, and totally loving it.

[Cytarabine]

However, I must say that the manual mode in the F18 I find it superior to the F16 TWS, as it allows you to not loose target with an offset for one side, even more if you have a high target ageing it turns out you can cover more than lets say 40 degrees (I normally use 40 degrees 4 bars) to each side of a target by moving the TDC alternatively to each side of your L&S before a target disappear. Also the TWS in the hornet is just so much quicker than in the viper, I'm just loving it and even stopped using RWS at all, since the TWS manual mode allows you so much more tactically...

 

All in all I must say i'm quite impressed with it, and totally loving it.

 

Got to agree, the TWS in the Hornet is fantastic. I really like seeing my targets turn too late when the missile goes pitbull on them. I also find that it is much quicker at assigning track files than the Viper. Often in the Viper I won’t have the whole formation as tracks while in the Hornet no such issue. The information on the HUD and radar display is also much more useful than the Viper.

 

Perhaps they have modelled a difference between the AN/APG-73 and the AN/APG-68v5?

[falcon_120]

Got to agree, the TWS in the Hornet is fantastic. I really like seeing my targets turn too late when the missile goes pitbull on them. I also find that it is much quicker at assigning track files than the Viper. Often in the Viper I won’t have the whole formation as tracks while in the Hornet no such issue. The information on the HUD and radar display is also much more useful than the Viper.

 

Perhaps they have modelled a difference between the AN/APG-73 and the AN/APG-68v5?

 

Certainly the process of elevating track files to system files is quite cumbersome and slow in the viper specially when you are relatively close to a bogey. On the other hand I always thought and heard that the APG73 was a better set that the APG68 and maybe that is one of the reasons (also slightly better detection range).

[Harker]

I believe the APG-73 Phase 2 we have in the Hornet is also supposed to have higher processing power than the APG-68v5, which might have something to do with how quickly it can generate multiple trackfiles. It's a more capable radar overall, from what I understand.

I'm wondering though if it's indeed able to generate a trackfile with just one radar sweep, as this seems to be what's happening now, although the system will build the info in the background, even before you enter TWS. Thoughts?

Edited December 21, 2019 by Harker

[Airhunter]

Used TWS in MAN last night on a packed PvP server and it worked just fine for the most part. You do need to work more to keep that target illuminated, but with Datalink and altitude information when the TDC is over the contact it is pretty easy to keep him within paremeters.

 

Tomcat RIO's will find this quite easy. ;)