Question about brevity regarding elevation in feet and meters

[Ducksen]

Just a hopefully quick question.

 

I know the term ANGELS refers to elevation in thousands of feet above sea level. Used to name a hight of an aircraft. Example; 9000 feet is angels 9.

 

In multiplayer there are aircrafts using both feet and meters. I heard a few people stating that angels are used for both meters and feet above sea level. I am finding that impossible to belive. Seeng as in a multiplayer session saying angels 3 can mean 3000feet and 3000 meters.

 

So is there a term for meters above sea level?

Demons are used for meters BELOW sea level I have found in a brevity manual. But nothing for meters above sea level.

[Kang]

I think that is down to the fact that in DCS it's entirely possible to have mixed-and-mashed setups going on. Since all western avionics work in feet there probably is no NATO code for anything in metres.

[Nealius]

I'm curious about former Eastern Bloc countries that still use Russian hardware but are integrated into NATO. Are their avionics updated to feet/knots?

[Richard Dastardly]

I think that is down to the fact that in DCS it's entirely possible to have mixed-and-mashed setups going on. Since all western avionics work in feet there probably is no NATO code for anything in metres.

 

Would suspect altitude in feet is a NATO standard, in fact. Sweden has never joined NATO, so the Viggen gets a pass...

 

Angels is in thousands of feet, the last brevity doc I saw made a point of saying NATO doesn't specify if it's above MSL or AGL, so maybe they didn't bother with a standard, there seems to be *some* assumption of common sense going ion :p

Edited January 1, 2020 by Richard Dastardly

[mkiii]

I'm curious about former Eastern Bloc countries that still use Russian hardware but are integrated into NATO. Are their avionics updated to feet/knots?

Polish aircraft at least seem to be still using the original instrumentation (cryllic & metric) http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/su-22m4_fitter/index.php?Page=3

Although I'm sure that I glimpsed the word "Feet" on a climb & dive indicator in a Polish Mig-29

[Oldahpilot]

Angels used to express altitude, in feet above mean sea level. Height is used to express feet above the ground.

The elevation of a spot on the ground is in feet above mean sea level.

In practice this means the airfield I'm based at is at an elevation of 283 feet above mean sea level. If I set the barometric altimeter to zero feet it now shows my height, if I set it to 283 feet it shows my altitude.

 

Radar altimeter will always show height above the surface it's reflecting off.

[Notso]

From the ALSA MCM Brevity code word book:

 

ANGELS - Height of friendly aircraft in thousands of feet from mean sea level (MSL).

[QuiGon]

Polish aircraft at least seem to be still using the original instrumentation (cryllic & metric) http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/luc_colin3/su-22m4_fitter/index.php?Page=3

Although I'm sure that I glimpsed the word "Feet" on a climb & dive indicator in a Polish Mig-29

The German Air Force immediately converted their MiG-29s to imperial units after they got them from the East German Army after reunification. Germany then sold their MiG-29s to Poland in 2004 (for 1€ per plane).

 

So yeah, NATO standard is imperial. Metric isn't used in NATO aviation.

[Pikey]

Interesting to wonder about the Gripen, did it come more Nato-ish for sales purpose? Or are software changes making this kind of thing irrelevant now?

 

 

I've dealt with mixed units and Russian hardware, more common back in mig21 days though, everyone thinks that NATO standards are universal but there are so many occasions where in this game we can come off those rails. Whilst its nice to have strict processes, in this game you adjust to whatever you need.

[JUICE-AWG]

Per Tactical Pascale, a retired RAF GCI and now a civilian instructor on the subject...Angels are for Friendly aircraft and Thousands of Feet are for Bogies and Bandits.

 

When you hear the term "Flight Level" (FL) that refers to rounded altitudes above 17,999 feet so the first Flight Level is Flight Level 180 or short for 18,000 feet. And of course these are all in MSL or Mean Sea Level or in DCS, ASL for Above Sea Level. When you cross and are staying above 18,000 feet, it's recommended you change your altimeter to 29.92 so that everyone is calibrated the same at higher altitudes.

 

If a controller assigns you an altitude between 10,000 and 17,900 feet, you will hear something like "Climb (or Descend) to One Zero Thousand Feet (10,000) and One seven thousand niner hundred feet (17,900).

 

If below 10,000 feet, the you would use a term like "Four Thousand six hundred" for 4,600 feet.

 

Check out Pascale's videos here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4Mwn7U1SSeaDLMVB7ERE0Q

Edited March 15, 2020 by =JUICE=