Some Great Ka-50 Links

[BBQ]

Scroll down to the very bottom of the page for the links--very informative!

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-50

[-akyla-]

COOL

[Flyby]

great links, but

 

Only 16 built as of 2006???!!!!!:eek: That's all? I wonder how many Ka-50s have been built since then? Yet I gotta assume that a lot of info was made available to our ED crew so that it could be simulated with such high fidelity.

Flyby

[joey45]

how maney do they need is the question.

[badaboom]

Do they also call the K-50 the "Werewolf" or is that the K-52?

[joey45]

the 50

[badaboom]

:thumbup:

[Mugatu]

Didn't the Russian's know it was just a movie before they ripped the design?

 

http://www.colddeadfish.net/images/SWFIDM/003.jpg

[Flyby]

Hey Joey, I think a more approriate question is how many can the Russians afford? It was just surprising to me that so few actually exist/were made. It's not as though the Ka50 is so highly specialised as to be uniquely superior to other gunship marques, imho.

Still and all, I am eager to get my hands on the sim. ;)

 

Mugatu, nice link! We have a saying: that boy ain't right. "Didn't the Russians know it was just a movie..." You ain't right! :D

Flyby

[Yellonet]

Didn't the Russian's know it was just a movie before they ripped the design?

 

http://www.colddeadfish.net/images/SWFIDM/003.jpg

That's why they don't need no fire and forget missiles - use the force Luke!

[Sundowner.pl]

Hey Joey, I think a more approriate question is how many can the Russians afford? It was just surprising to me that so few actually exist/were made.

The orders were changed many times, right now, the Mi-28 is the winner for the Russian attack helicopter, and the Mil is going to build 67 of them in next few years. The Ka-50 is actually halted - only those that production was started will be finished. And the Ka-52 is made by Kamov own money, exclusively for the foreign market (Ka-50-2 just lost in Turkey).

[joey45]

your right Flyby..... but look how many AH [thats Ataack Helis] the Russains have/ing, they might only want a few 50s for the role...

 

EDIT: what he just said.....

[Groove]

http://wmilitary.neurok.ru/ka50/ka50design1.html

[TorwaK]

nice photo

[Avimimus]

Didn't the Russian's know it was just a movie before they ripped the design?

 

http://www.colddeadfish.net/images/SWFIDM/003.jpg

 

"lol" :D

[Avimimus]

The orders were changed many times, right now, the Mi-28 is the winner for the Russian attack helicopter, and the Mil is going to build 67 of them in next few years. The Ka-50 is actually halted - only those that production was started will be finished. And the Ka-52 is made by Kamov own money, exclusively for the foreign market (Ka-50-2 just lost in Turkey).

 

Wait a second! I thought that the Mi-28 lost the competition and that the Ka-50 is planned for mass production once the N variant is finished!

[Esac_mirmidon]

Hey Groove ..... great finding... very informative....nice and unseen photos...

[GGTharos]

Incorrect.

 

The ka-50 is to server in 'low intensity conflict' scenarios, since its combat avionics and weapons are relatively out-dated for the modern battlefield. Not that it couldn't do this thing or the other, it's just that the Mi-28 will likely do it better.

 

Wait a second! I thought that the Mi-28 lost the competition and that the Ka-50 is planned for mass production once the N variant is finished!

[Flyby]

"low intensity conflict scenarios"?

 

hey Tharos that'a some commentary on the Ka50 to relegate it to low intensity conflicts. :( It's as if this gunship will be fighting in backwater conflicts while the Mi 28 goes up against the serious big league opposition. I wonder; are the weapons and avionics really so outdated on the Black Shark? Does that mean that the ground-based equipment the BS will encounter in the sim is second rate? I don't really want to believe that's what you're saying. Please clarify.

thanks,

Flyby out

[britgliderpilot]

hey Tharos that'a some commentary on the Ka50 to relegate it to low intensity conflicts. :( It's as if this gunship will be fighting in backwater conflicts while the Mi 28 goes up against the serious big league opposition. I wonder; are the weapons and avionics really so outdated on the Black Shark? Does that mean that the ground-based equipment the BS will encounter in the sim is second rate? I don't really want to believe that's what you're saying. Please clarify.

thanks,

Flyby out

 

 

This might require a redefinition of the term "second rate" ;)

 

The Ka50 is a 1980's aircraft.

 

. . . but then IIRC, the M1, T80, Shilka, and Vulcan are all 1980's vintage as well, if not older.

 

 

The Mi28 might work better against massed tank formations in a World War Three scenario roaming over central Europe . . . but that's unlikely to happen anytime soon.

 

Whereas low intensity conflicts happen a lot more - Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, and possibly the conflicts in former Yugoslavia could all be termed low intensity. Insofar as you can have low intensity wars, that is.

 

 

The campaigns aren't written yet, but I wouldn't worry about them not keeping you busy!

[Flyby]

rgrt Britgliderpilot. Good points, and well said. Will the any of the countries you mentioned be in the sim?

Flyby

[EvilBivol-1]

The Ka-50 as currently in service with the Russian military, like almost all other in-service equipment, dates back to early 80s designs. Everything stopped in the 90s when the USSR collapsed and as a result what you have today are "outdated" aircraft. The Kamov company has attempted to continute development of the helicopter with the various upgrades seen at airshows (Ka-50Sh single seat night capable version and the Ka-52 dual-seat version), but none of these are in service with the military or likely to be in the near future and so are not modeled in the game.

 

In the real world, the Ka-50 did in fact "beat" the original Mi-28 in the Soviet military competition for the next generation attack helicopter. However the USSR collapsed and throughout the 90s the two companies (Mil and Kamov) continued a bitter rivalry for export and domestic orders. The Russian military kept switching favors from one helicopter to the other, with no real orders for either.

 

Eventually, the upgraded Mi-28N night-capable version was chosen as the "main" attack helicopter for the Russian military, with the first serial-produced airframes now nearing service entry (although they are still lacking much of their standard equipment, such as the freaking radar).

 

Not to leave Kamov completely out, the military has ordered a smaller number of Ka-50s and Ka-52s for "special operations", for which they are supposedly better equipped than the Mi-28N. In reality, it is doubtfull that any new Ka-50s or -52s will be built for service. What is possible is that the few Ka-50 airframes whose construction was frozen in the 90s will be completed and put into service to complement the few in-service airframes, making the total number of active-duty Ka-50s somewhere around 20-25.

 

The Ka-50's main limitation is lack of IR imaging equipment, severly limiting it's night-fighting capability. While the pilot can utilize NVGs, these can't help the TV (day only) Shkval optics and therefore prevent use of the Vikhr missile at night (unless the target area is illuminated). So night operations are largely limited to navigation and use of unguided weapons.

 

This may be shocking when compared to the advanced capability of the Apache, but just remember that night-capability would've undoubdetly been added if development would continue as planned. In fact, when the Ka-50 won the original Soviet tender over the Mi-28, the military required that additional night-fighting capability be added to the helicopter. Unfortunately, any possiblity for further development stopped with the collapse of the USSR, outside of private company investment into its product.

[Flyby]

egads EvilBivol!

 

The Ka-50 as currently in service with the Russian military, like almost all other in-service equipment, dates back to early 80s designs. Everything stopped in the 90s when the USSR collapsed and as a result what you have today are "outdated" aircraft. The Kamov company has attempted to continute development of the helicopter with the various upgrades seen at airshows (Ka-50Sh single seat night capable version and the Ka-52 dual-seat version), but none of these are in service with the military or likely to be in the near future and so are not modeled in the game.

 

In the real world, the Ka-50 did in fact "beat" the original Mi-28 in the Soviet military competition for the next generation attack helicopter. However the USSR collapsed and throughout the 90s the two companies (Mil and Kamov) continued a bitter rivalry for export and domestic orders. The Russian military kept switching favors from one helicopter to the other, with no real orders for either.

 

Eventually, the upgraded Mi-28N night-capable version was chosen as the "main" attack helicopter for the Russian military, with the first serial-produced airframes now nearing service entry (although they are still lacking much of their standard equipment, such as the freaking radar).

 

Not to leave Kamov completely out, the military has ordered a smaller number of Ka-50s and Ka-52s for "special operations", for which they are supposedly better equipped than the Mi-28N. In reality, it is doubtfull that any new Ka-50s or -52s will be built for service. What is possible is that the few Ka-50 airframes whose construction was frozen in the 90s will be completed and put into service to complement the few in-service airframes, making the total number of active-duty Ka-50s somewhere around 20-25.

 

The Ka-50's main limitation is lack of IR imaging equipment, severly limiting it's night-fighting capability. While the pilot can utilize NVGs, these can't help the TV (day only) Shkval optics and therefore prevent use of the Vikhr missile at night (unless the target area is illuminated). So night operations are largely limited to navigation and use of unguided weapons.

 

This may be shocking when compared to the advanced capability of the Apache, but just remember that night-capability would've undoubdetly been added if developmed would continue as planned. In fact, when the Ka-50 won the original Soviet tender over the Mi-28, the military required that additional night-fighting capability be added to the helicopter. Unfortunately, any possiblity for further development stopped with the collapse of the USSR, outside of private company investment into its product.

So limited night strikes? I guess it will still be one heck of a combat sim.

Flyby

[EvilBivol-1]

As a simulation of a combat aircraft, IMO Black Shark will be unprecedented.

 

To add a note to the idea of special vs. regular operations, this is something the Russian military invented as a reasoning to accept two completely different helicopter types into service. To most serious observes, this logic is dismissed as politics.

 

What can be said is that, as a flying machine, the Ka-50 is in fact better equipped than the Mi-28/Mi-28N or any other modern attack helo for that matter, for "special" operations, in so far as having more power and stability to fly in the hot and/or high altitude and/or high wind atmoshpere where these types of operations often take place. As a fighting machine, however, the Ka-50 is limited by it's ability to find and destroy threats, something a dual-seat and IR-equipped helicopter can arguably do much better. This is what the Ka-52 is supposed to do exactly, but once again, so far it is strictly a company venture.

[Avimimus]

Thanks, that clears up the confusion.

 

I am beginning to wonder how many Mi-28Ns will actually be produced before the next generation of attack helicopters is developed...

 

Anyway, I prefer to think of DCS:BS as being set in a counter-factual history (it is too horrible otherwise!), one where large numbers of Ka-50s were bought. It would make sense that, if the cold war that continued until the mid-90s, and the night optics couldn't be developed in time, then the baseline model that beat the Mi-28A would enter service as an interim variant.