RvETito Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Ever heard of Ka-52? "See, to me that's a stupid instrument. It tells what your angle of attack is. If you don't know you shouldn't be flying." - Chuck Yeager, from the back seat of F-15D at age 89. =RvE=
Malleus Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Ever heard of Ka-52? That's not exactly a "whole new helicopter".
Yellonet Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 That's not exactly a "whole new helicopter".No, it's a combination of the advantages of the Ka-50 technology with the advantages of two people in the pit. i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
Force_Feedback Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 The K-37-800 has a spin stabilized rocket that pulls the pilot out at an angle, just like 'modern' ejection seats, their trajectory will be more or less the same. So the chute has enough forward velocity to deploy safely. The reason the K-37 'does not work' as per your words, is that there was not 1 instance in which the pilot attempted to eject. So, if they didn't try, and payed with their life, how can you say it doesn't work? These helicopters were designed to be flown in a warzone, engine failures are one of the less worrying kinds of failures when machine gun bullets fly your way. So, if let's say a Stinger fancies flying through the rotor, what then? Autorotation? :P That's why there are these two red handles in there, not because autorotation is the better alternative. Creedence Clearwater Revival:worthy:
Malleus Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 No, it's a combination of the advantages of the Ka-50 technology with the advantages of two people in the pit. Sure, and hey, I don't want to bash the heli (I like them), but the 52 is based on the 50 after all, which is a design that's not suited for today's battlefield as much as other helis. Or so it seems. Also, nobody's buying that either (except Russia).
Sundowner.pl Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 The K-37-800 has a spin stabilized rocket that pulls the pilot out at an angle, just like 'modern' ejection seats, their trajectory will be more or less the same. So the chute has enough forward velocity to deploy safely.Not really, take a look how the K-36 ad ACES-type seats work. First they launch you out of th cockpit using rocket motors, then a small stabilizing chute (or in case of K36 - 'chutes') is used to stabilize the seat in proper attitude for releasing the pilot, and main chute system to work - that's missing in Stanley/K-37 system. About Ka-52... not even Russia buy them, there is only one prototype, that was build, and is tested by Kamov money. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos
-akyla- Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 It's better to be ejected out of the heli than die in the wreckage. Btw, why do i always see sundowner whining about ka-50! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Sundowner.pl Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Some one have to do it ! :lol: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "If a place needs helicopters, it's probably not worth visiting." - Nick Lappos
Yellonet Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 It's better to be ejected out of the heli than die in the wreckage. Btw, why do i always see sundowner whining about ka-50!Yeah I wonder that too.. I don't really like the Apache, but I don't feel the need to bring up all the negative things I can find and invent just because... i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
GGTharos Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 You'll be liking it even less when it'll be out-detecting and out-gunning your Ka-50! :D Or doing night ops while you can't ... :D *pours gas into the fire* [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Yellonet Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 You'll be liking it even less when it'll be out-detecting and out-gunning your Ka-50! :D Or doing night ops while you can't ... :D *pours gas into the fire**Yeah I guess the guys will be flying Hokums and the girls will go for the Apaches :harhar: *Yes, that was a joke i7-2600k@4GHz, 8GB, R9 280X 3GB, SSD, HOTAS WH, Pro Flight Combat Pedals, TIR5
-akyla- Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 I can fly my ka-50 when you are waiting for DCS - Apache:D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
Dudikoff Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Single pilot concept was tested by Sikorsky in early 80's on S-76 - project Shadow, even though it was more advanced than Ka-50 (full glass cockpit, helmet mounted displays, full FBW controls, etc.) it didn't proved useful. You know what would be innovative ? A tiltrotor attack aircraft - no one made something like that yet - every other thing was already tested. It would. If something is innovative, it doesn't necessarily means it has to be better :) i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar!
159th_Viper Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 *pours gas into the fire* :megalol: Personally I do not care in which guise my Airframe comes: Bottom line - as long as it has an Advanced Flight Model I'll be flying it!! Novice or Veteran looking for an alternative MP career? Click me to commence your Journey of Pillage and Plunder! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] '....And when I get to Heaven, to St Peter I will tell.... One more Soldier reporting Sir, I've served my time in Hell......'
GGTharos Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 You mean, I'll have a girl in the other seat and you'll have yourself in your seat! ;) Hehehe ;) *Yeah I guess the guys will be flying Hokums and the girls will go for the Apaches :harhar: *Yes, that was a joke [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Flyby Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 but wait! there's more... hey dudes and dudettes, can we get this thread back on topic? I'd like to know the answer to the original question: what kind of conflict for the Ka-50? I think the discussion of technical pros and cons is interesting and informative, but I, for one, still want to know. What can be divined from looking at the U.S Apache presence in Iraq is that the Ka-50 could be of use as a close air support craft when combating insurgents in urban areas, especially if someone on the ground is designating targets. I once saw a video somewhere that said other craft designating targets for the BS was how it would be employed. I guess troops on the ground could do the same in tight urban areas. So I wonder if special forces will be modeled in BS, for such designating duties? Then, I suppose the traditional armor-busting duties will always be there too. But who will be the armored enemies in BS? Oh as for using the datalink abilities, will the Ka-52 be modeled as an AI targeting command vehicle? This would be similar to an Apache Longbow designating targets for the A models. ( at least I think that's what it can do). Anyway, back on topic! Use that imagination! :D Flyby The U.S. Congress is the best governing body that BIG money can buy. :cry:
GGTharos Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 The Ka-50 has been used for terrorist-hunting in Chechnya and/or Georgia, I forget which. This is the type of mission it is best suited to. Also, convoy interdiction, and bunker-busting with S-13's (they have bunker-busting warheads). So basically, just about any target you can think up that doesn't have a boatload of heavy SAM or fighter coverage; other missions, though rare, might include minelaying. I don't think it's quite as good in urban situations as an Apache, from the situational awareness point of view - the more complex your environment, the more important your sensors become. But I might be wrong here. It is more the case of an Apache being able to get directly cued in with laser pointers and whatnot, not certain if that capability exists for the russian army (not that it's hard to implement realistically, but it might simply not have been) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Malleus Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 The black shark has been used for terrorist-hunting in Chechnya and/or Georgia, I forget which. Fixed. And it was Chechnya. IIRC there was even some debate about letting russian AC enter Georgian airspace to hunt rebels, but Georgia did not give permission.
GGTharos Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Oops. Thanks - hah. Bad fingers! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
Malleus Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Oops. Thanks - hah. Bad fingers! No, it's just that you're so obsessed with the Apache, your subcounscious didn't let you write "Ka-50". Don't worry, it happens.:P
GGTharos Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 No, no, I was in a hurry, really! Well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!!!! :P Actually, if in the future we get an 'updated' Ka-50, it might come to be relatively on par with the Apache (talking about ball-turret with FLIR etc) ... then detection becomes about equal in terms of sensor capability (But apache still gets IHADSS) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
-akyla- Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 this wold be even more cool :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
MBot Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Actually, if in the future we get an 'updated' Ka-50, it might come to be relatively on par with the Apache (talking about ball-turret with FLIR etc) ... then detection becomes about equal in terms of sensor capability (But apache still gets IHADSS) Fancy sensors are all nice, but they are of no use as long as you don't have anyone dedicated looking trough them ;)
Flyby Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 Thanks Acedy. Let's hope that someone can pass of target coordinates! Also, I hope mission-building in BS will not be a limited-scenario affair. It seems the gunship shouldn't do SEAD. Anyone wonderinng if the BS world might be a bit on the quiet side? Kinda makes me wish for a Fulda Gap Scenario. So I think I will try to create a Fulda Gap battle when BS comes out. :D The U.S. Congress is the best governing body that BIG money can buy. :cry:
GGTharos Posted November 9, 2007 Posted November 9, 2007 You do understand that it is a high-attrition scenario and you should have a good chance of dying no matter /what/ you do right? :D [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda
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