autostart misses auto

[D4n]

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4239158#post4239158

[msalama]

What exactly do you think you'll gain by opening two threads about the same thing?

[Art-J]

What exactly do you think you'll gain by opening two threads about the same thing?

 

Not quite, I suppose this time he means auto mode of the propeller. I agree, however, he could at least title the thread accordingly.

[D4n]

Not quite, I suppose this time he means auto mode of the propeller. I agree, however, he could at least title the thread accordingly.

I'm very sorry, I was in a hurry.

[grafspee]

Auto start should not set prop Auto because for take off you need manual prop

[razo+r]

Auto start should not set prop Auto because for take off you need manual prop

 

It's not needed but advised.

[msalama]

So this is not a bug, but most likely OP not warming up the engine properly before takeoff. Or that's my take on it at least.

[Art-J]

Warming up is not a factor in this particular case, as the engine would seize anyway. OP just forgot that with prop left in manual without further actions pilot overrevs and kills the engine in a matter of minutes. Pretty common "issue" back when the module was released and people were just learning it :D.

 

I'd say either the auto-start sequence should be changed accordingly, or the module pdf manual and training missions should add a word or two about both methods of taking off - with auto prop vs manual prop. Sadly, neither missions nor manual are up to date anymore and I can see how it might cause confusion for new players, or players coming back to 109 after a long break.

[grafspee]

So this is not a bug, but most likely OP not warming up the engine properly before takeoff. Or that's my take on it at least.

 

It's typical, guy spawn bf 109 use auto start,not heaving a clue about prop, then he made take off, once bf 109 get some speed rpm go too high puff engine dead, then once he orient him self that when you over rev bf 109 engine = death(some ppl don't manage to get to this point, there is mw-50 switch somewhere in the process which made it even harder to detect what is wrong), then he take off and continuously reducing throttle to maintain safe rpm ,then he throws module away thinking that this is the worst plane in the world.

Less typical, guy opens manual quickly jumps to start up/ take off section.

Then he starting up bf 109 and take off and has lots of fun with module.

Edited March 9, 2020 by grafspee

[LeCuvier]

as razo+r says, it's not necessary to take off with the engine governor in manual. I generally set it to auto just before I roll to the take-off position. That's because I sometimes forgot to swith to Auto after take-off; and and when I started climbing the engine died very quickly.

By the way, the FW-190A8 (Anton) has similar functionality, but the switch for the engine governor is in the "Auto" (Autom. Betr.) position when you start a mission (cold or warm start).

And the FW-190D has a similar or same engine governor but it's always used in the Auto mode, unless you need War Emergency Power (WEP). In that case you can pull the red handle labelled "Notzug für Bedien-Getr." I have never used it as the Dora has plenty of power especially with MW50 ON.

[grafspee]

as razo+r says, it's not necessary to take off with the engine governor in manual. I generally set it to auto just before I roll to the take-off position. That's because I sometimes forgot to swith to Auto after take-off; and and when I started climbing the engine died very quickly.

By the way, the FW-190A8 (Anton) has similar functionality, but the switch for the engine governor is in the "Auto" (Autom. Betr.) position when you start a mission (cold or warm start).

And the FW-190D has a similar or same engine governor but it's always used in the Auto mode, unless you need War Emergency Power (WEP). In that case you can pull the red handle labelled "Notzug für Bedien-Getr." I have never used it as the Dora has plenty of power especially with MW50 ON.

 

Yeah, but in Anton this switch is set to Auto by default, auto start has nothing to do with this.

 

As far as is know red handle (Motorbediengerät) in D9 is in case of engine/prop control unit fail aparently it is wrong :).

But Prop control remain automatic, and according to DCS manual 1.55ATA and 2700rpm is limit in "Notzung" mode.

So it's simply allowing for high boost at lower rpm then in normal mode.

Dora don't have manual prop control as fas as i know.

I would say that Anton and Bf 109 has something similar and D9 has something difrent.

Edited March 9, 2020 by grafspee

[D4n]

..., not heaving a clue about prop, ...

Which is only purely logical, I mean free TF-51 aircraft doesn't die because of borderline (red bar on gauge) RPM setting the entire flight... Then the question that should be raised, is, why would 109 engine not indicate overheating due to RPM in the cockpit, why did Messerschmitt engineers not put such indicator/gauge in cockpit? :huh:

[D4n]

"Notzung"

Notzug, (emergency pull). Btw "Nutzung" would be "usability/use", not to mix up ^^

[razo+r]

Which is only purely logical, I mean free TF-51 aircraft doesn't die because of borderline (red bar on gauge) RPM setting the entire flight... Then the question that should be raised, is, why would 109 engine not indicate overheating due to RPM in the cockpit, why did Messerschmitt engineers not put such indicator/gauge in cockpit? :huh:

 

Unless you quickly increase the RPM settings in the 51, you cannot really overrev it. In contrast, if you leave the prop blade pitch at the same angle in the 109, it will eventually (with increasing speed) overrev and die, just like any engine does when it's going too fast. That has nothing to do with heat.

 

Nontheless, the engineers at Messerschmitt did install a temperature gauge for both the Water cooland and Oil.

 

And on top of all that, you have a RPM and a Manifold Pressure gauge as well as a manual stating the limits.

Edited March 9, 2020 by razo+r

[D4n]

But iirc I didn't exceed and red line on my RPM and Manifold gauges, or did I, are there red lines? Any idea why it's possible to overrev the 109 engine when the 51 engine is nearly impossible to overrev?

[razo+r]

There are no red lines in the 109.

 

Yes, the 51 has the governor always on, while you basically switch it on and off in the 109.

[D4n]

There are no red lines in the 109.

crazy germans xD

[LeCuvier]

...why would 109 engine not indicate overheating due to RPM in the cockpit, why did Messerschmitt engineers not put such indicator/gauge in cockpit? :huh:

I'm afraid we can't ask them (unless you can time-travel), but I guess they designed the aircraft for smart pilots:) Personally, I consider that the Engine Governor is there for a good reason and I have it in Auto mode for take-off and flying. I only set it to Manual before landing with the "clock" set at 11:30. I don't know for sure why that's recommended. Maybe to make sure the engine runs at a sufficient rev rate for cooling when you need very little power.

Edited March 9, 2020 by LeCuvier

[msalama]

why it's possible to overrev

 

Different designs.

[grafspee]

Notzug, (emergency pull). Btw "Nutzung" would be "usability/use", not to mix up ^^

 

Thats what i tried to say, Whiel Notzung 2700rpm and 1.55 ata limit must be restricted

[grafspee]

But iirc I didn't exceed and red line on my RPM and Manifold gauges, or did I, are there red lines? Any idea why it's possible to overrev the 109 engine when the 51 engine is nearly impossible to overrev?

 

P-51 use hydraulic(hydromatic it is called i think) constant speed prop, rev range is 1600-3000 set via handle in cockpit.So you cant over rev the engine because rpm are governed all the time you cant turn it off.

Bf-109 don't have constant speed propeller in standard mean, it act like constant speed but not exactly. In B f109 engine boost and engine rpm are connected, so when you add boost you are adding rpm too(similar to p-51 setup but operated by 1 handle, p-51 had 61" 3000rpm and 46"2700 for climb but in p-51 you have to move throttle and prop handle to achieve lower power settings, in bf109 control unit doing this stuff for you, once you set desired boost in bf109 engine will hit desired rpm then control unit will hold this rpm by adjusting prop pitch). In manual mode prop in bf 109 become simple fixed pitch prop so when you add too much power or you gain too much speed prop will over rev.

redline for bf 109 is 2850 if i remember correctly.