45 degree snapview in VR

[skunk160]

or the ability to be able to save a snap view of the direction you want to look ie over the shoulder, it's frustrating with the current VR FOV and seeing dogfight videos where track ir lets a player look directly at his 6 o'clock like the Linda Exorcist

[WelshZeCorgi]

or the ability to be able to save a snap view of the direction you want to look ie over the shoulder, it's frustrating with the current VR FOV and seeing dogfight videos where track ir lets a player look directly at his 6 o'clock like the Linda Exorcist

 

Don't ask this in the VR forum cause they will crucify you for not sycophantically chanting that VR is perfect and 100% realistic and nothing is wrong with the current state of VR.

Edited April 2, 2020 by WelshZeCorgi

[grammaton_feather]

Don't ask this in the VR forum cause they will crucify you for not sycophantically chanting that VR is perfect and 100% realistic and nothing is wrong with the current state of VR.

 

Lack of unrealistic head movement isn't something wrong with VR.

 

VR has a long way to go but more importantly DCS World running on an ancient and slow API with no hardware VR accleration features supported (Nvidia) is the biggest issue.

[skunk160]

No, I agree it's not. A snap view over the shoulder would alleviate restrictions of the limited FOV of VR. Not asking for faked neck-breaking Exorcist head turns that you can do in Track IR.

 

Just want to be able to see further rearwards than the 3-9 line.... say 4-30-7-30 which is what I can see out of the corner of my Mk1 Eyeball

[Fri13]

Don't ask this in the VR forum cause they will crucify you for not sycophantically chanting that VR is perfect and 100% realistic and nothing is wrong with the current state of VR.

 

 

The problem is that TrackIR is completely unrealistic, not that the VR would be perfect.

But just for your knowledge, with Rift S (the narrowest FOV of them all!) I can look my six such way that I see the opposite side vertical stabilizer, just by doing exactly that pilots does in real life, shift weight little and then turn shoulders and turn head.

But you are not going to do that while pulling high G's as you have no support to your full body.

 

With F-16C I can see just past the vertical stabilizer without shifting weight or moving shoulders, just by grabbing the handle and slightly pulling to that direction so I can turn my head.

Again, not possible with high G's as no support to body/head.

 

VR = More realistic

TrackIR = Very unrealistic

 

VR has its problems, that will be improved over time, but people wanting something like TrackIR is nothing more than wishing a similar cheating capability that TrackIR supports.

 

What there should be, is G-force limited head turning for TrackIR, so that more you pull, less you can actually look around (you can't do that for VR as touching VR vision without body movement is big NO-NO!).

[SharpeXB]

What there should be, is G-force limited head turning for TrackIR, so that more you pull, less you can actually look around (you can't do that for VR as touching VR vision without body movement is big NO-NO!).

No...

And if you add that for other view systems then you’d have to add it for VR. Which would make people sick.

So just no.

 

This whole topic makes me realize VR is in trouble for flight sims because people actually don’t want their gaming to be physical work. VR players asking for snap views... :music_whistling:

Edited April 4, 2020 by SharpeXB

[WelshZeCorgi]

The problem is not headtracking, the problem is that the hardware limitations of current VR headsets making it impossible to keep track of visual contacts once they start to drift into the low-contrast, blurry, double vision producing peripheral views of the headset lenses.

 

 

When you reach the end of your head's natural travel, you can move your eyes to get that extra leverage to look behind you, but because not only does the headset narrow your FOV already, what little peripheral vision play you get is mostly blurred.

 

So whenever HABFM or DBFM ever happens, you're trying to fight with horse blinders on. Whenever he dips below the horizon, instantly, he blends into the terrain and disappears because the out of focus view the edges of the lenses provide is this low contrast, blurry, double image that is impossible to pick him out of. You can't effectively fight someone like that. It's annoying, it get's you shot down a lot and it is hardly "realistic".

 

That's the problem trying to be solved here. It's not laziness, it's being handicapped by a $1000 piece of equipment that won't give you the same clarity, flexibility and range your real eyes do.

 

Whether snap views or head acceleration is the solution is up for debate, but since there is no eye tracking headset yet, the only way to get a clear picture of a contact at the edge of your peripheral vision with current headsets available on the market is to keep it at the center of the headset FOV, which demands you basically twist your head off. Which you can image is a bit uncomfortable if not flat out annoying and painful.

Edited April 4, 2020 by WelshZeCorgi

[Bailey]

I very much support this option. I know people with limited mobility and I'd love for them to be able to enjoy DCS in VR. If you believe that people will get sick with a option like this, that's fine, those people have the option not to use it. But please don't use that as a reason to deny others to be able to enjoy DCS in VR.

~Bailey

[Fri13]

This whole topic makes me realize VR is dead for sims because people actually don’t want their gaming to be physical work. VR players asking for snap views... :music_whistling:

 

VR is not dead for simulators, VR is not so great for other games that requires room scale and that you crouch, jump, and otherwise dance around the game physically tiring you after workday/school day.

 

Simulators allows you to sit down, be it driving or flying. That is seriously different thing.

 

And what some people want, is same unrealistic viewing capability as TrackIR allows users to have!

 

Hands up how many here drives a trailer for living, or at all?

Average person can even reverse their cars well enough by looking rear without mirrors. Instead many can't even place their center line arm behind front seat to assist them to look rear well, because that is typically required.

 

Experienced truck drivers can majestically reverse a full length trailer trough a very narrow path that leaves just 10-20 cm on both sides, JUST BY USING SIDE MIRRORS.

Yet at the same time average driver has challenge to even a) park a car or b) reverse with trailer on clear open area!

 

The point is, people can't look at their six without shifting their bodies sideways so that they can rotate their upper body so that they can turn their head enough so that they can look to their back with clear sharp vision.

 

Anyone can go to sit in their car and start reversing, quickly they will learn that in some moments it is enough to use side/rear mirrors to do so, but some cases requires to actually shift body and twist upper body so that one can see through rear window.

 

We can go again watching youtube videos from pilots performing combat trainings recorded with gopros etc, and they do exactly as I talk about. No pilot will be looking their six a clock without shifting their body away from the seat and actually looking to their rear.

 

The trackIR is simply unrealistic and too easy, why such users has big advantage as they can be pulling high G and stare straight to their six'clock like a owl.

[Fri13]

When you reach the end of your head's natural travel, you can move your eyes to get that extra leverage to look behind you

put it on full screen and do as guided....

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4131275&postcount=4

 

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0005594

 

Point is, to find something you need to know where you are suppose to see it, and it is literally like looking through straw when not knowing where something is, but contrast with motion can reveal position, where 3D vision in VR comes handy, regardless that the lenses ain't perfect at edges.

 

I can track a fighter in dog fight in whole Rift S visible area. I can't make out does the fighter have what country flag, but I can see attitude and shape in most cases in good lighting.

[SharpeXB]

VR is not dead for simulators,

I should have said “flight”

Racing doesn’t require the player to twist and move so much, maybe it’s the best choice for VR. Doesn’t require you to ID and track small targets either.

 

Asking for other players to be handicapped to make up for the technical shortcomings of VR is pretty ridiculous. Nobody is being forced to play in VR.

[Notso]

 

The point is, people can't look at their six without shifting their bodies sideways so that they can rotate their upper body so that they can turn their head enough so that they can look to their back with clear sharp vision.

 

Anyone can go to sit in their car and start reversing, quickly they will learn that in some moments it is enough to use side/rear mirrors to do so, but some cases requires to actually shift body and twist upper body so that one can see through rear window.

 

We can go again watching youtube videos from pilots performing combat trainings recorded with gopros etc, and they do exactly as I talk about. No pilot will be looking their six a clock without shifting their body away from the seat and actually looking to their rear.

 

The trackIR is simply unrealistic and too easy, why such users has big advantage as they can be pulling high G and stare straight to their six'clock like a owl.

 

 

Agree with this. The only effective way to check six with VR is to shift your body sideways as well as twist your neck. Which is the way it happens IRL. The main issue that most will have is - that unless they've built a simpit of some kind - is that to do so effectively, you need something to push against. In a real jet cockpit, you have the side canopy rails and handles to help move your body around and give you something to use for your hands to gain leverage with. It's hard to do that sitting in an office chair or in a sim racing seat. I have the latter and I have it right against the wall in the room, so at least I can push in one direction and it makes a HUGE difference. I now need to figure out a way to get something to brace against on the other side.

 

So yes, adding a cheat view in VR to be able to check six is unrealistic and defeats the entire point of VR. Yes, I get that IRL, you have peripheral vision to see a bit further that is harder to do in VR with current limitations. But that's a limitation you can get over by moving your body a bit further off line.

 

If you have physical limitations to doing the above, then the easiest solution is to "fly" from a swivel office chair. I had to do that for a while until my sim seat chair arrived after being in transit in the move. It was amazing how easy it was to check six with no effort in a swivel chair. ;)

Edited April 4, 2020 by Notso

[CAmastersgt]

Love VR and it is amazing for DCS. I don't see a need for a snapview. Have no problem checking my six, just takes practice. Beats playing with Track IR or nothing at all by 1000%.

[grammaton_feather]

I should have said “flight”

Racing doesn’t require the player to twist and move so much, maybe it’s the best choice for VR. Doesn’t require you to ID and track small targets either.

 

Asking for other players to be handicapped to make up for the technical shortcomings of VR is pretty ridiculous. Nobody is being forced to play in VR.

 

Shortcomings of VR? What are you talking about? So you think being able to look directly behind is a realistic necessity? VR gives you realistic human limits. TrackIR doesn't provide realistic headtracking.

 

Real mil pilots have to shift their entire upper body to look close to behind.

[SharpeXB]

Shortcomings of VR? What are you talking about?

Read the rest of the thread...

 

I don’t want to carry around a 20lb machine gun in an fps game either. Realism only matters so much to most people in gaming. VR in a flight sim is making the game too physical for many people it seems. So go ahead and use snap views or whatever but don’t advocate handicapping other players. Again it’s your choice to use VR. So deal with it’s limitations.

Edited April 5, 2020 by SharpeXB

[grammaton_feather]

Read the rest of the thread...

 

I don’t want to carry around a 20lb machine gun in an fps game either. Realism only matters so much to most people in gaming. VR in a flight sim is making the game too physical for many people it seems. So go ahead and use snap views or whatever but don’t advocate handicapping other players. Again it’s your choice to use VR. So deal with it’s limitations.

 

VR making the game too physical (realistic) suggests some people shouldn't be using VR. I have been saying this for a long time. I've been using VR since 2006. As it heads towards mainstream (still some years away) it unfortunately falls into the hands of people who really aren't well-suited for it.

 

Not being able to look straight behind you isn't a VR limitation. It's a human limitation.

 

I personally don't care what ED add to VR as an option for those who can't move their bodies due to low-muscle energy but to see some people calling it a "limitation of VR" is just nonsense.

[skunk160]

Don't ask this in the VR forum cause they will crucify you for not sycophantically chanting that VR is perfect and 100% realistic and nothing is wrong with the current state of VR.

 

 

wow, you're not wrong and this wasn't even in the VR forum.

[Notso]

VR making the game too physical (realistic) suggests some people shouldn't be using VR. I have been saying this for a long time. I've been using VR since 2006. As it heads towards mainstream (still some years away) it unfortunately falls into the hands of people who really aren't well-suited for it.

 

Not being able to look straight behind you isn't a VR limitation. It's a human limitation.

 

I personally don't care what ED add to VR as an option for those who can't move their bodies due to low-muscle energy but to see some people calling it a "limitation of VR" is just nonsense.

 

Yep

[skunk160]

Just found out about a program NeckSafer works perfectly, especially seeing as I'm not well suited to using VR.  It is a limitation of current VR FOV and therefore, you have to turn a lot further in VR than IRL to see something that would be in your peripheral vision IRL.  If I wanted true Exorcist/Owl 180 degree vision I'd stick with TIR

 

Only downside is I have to run DCS in SteamVR and there's a definite FPS hit for me. Not an issue in another combat sim I fly. 

 

 "A snap view over the shoulder would alleviate restrictions of the limited FOV of VR. Not asking for faked neck-breaking Exorcist head turns that you can do in Track IR." Necksafer proves to me its more than possible and even automatable, something similar native to DCS would would be most excellent. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by skunk160

[Pande4360]

BUmp, I would like to have a natively supported feature for snapping to left or right. So I dont have to use steamvr or OpenComposite.