Guns Auto Acq in MIG29 and SU27/33

[IvanK]

If in Guns mode with radar on but not locked (funnel displayed) manoeuvring the target into the HUD results in an Auto lock. Anyone know the actually azimuth and Pitch limits of the Guns Auto acq envelope ? Is it just the HUD Field of View ?

[Eagle Driver]

It doesn't lock for me, I always have to go bore, HMD or vert scan to get a lock then manually switch to guns. It's very annoying, give me my F-15 functionality any day. The only thing I can guess is that you have a different version than me, non-FC maybe? I would all but rule out the HUD scan, they have that mode in the F-16 and it's never used because it's so slow. I'd have to see it work to tell you, Sorry.

[GGTharos]

I was under the impression that the Russian planes did not have a guns auto mode. I'll see if I can find someone to look into those aircrafts manuals (because my Russian sucks :D )

[Kuky]

I find that you can lock onto an aircraft in guns mode... no need to switch back to vertical scan, HMTS or boresite mode. You just need to place the aircraft within and bellow the start of the guns piper guidelines... then lock onto it.

[GGTharos]

So it's like bore but you have to manually hit the switch?

[Kuky]

something like that I guess

[IvanK]

In some primitive testing I have done the Russian Guns lock envelope would appear to be the same size as the Boresight circle. What is really strange is that I have on 2 occasions got a lock in Guns in the Mig29S without any Lock on button pushing.... this got me started on this thread.

[GGTharos]

Perhaps it's using whatever mode you used last - so if you use VS it would auto-lock? IIRC.

[IvanK]

After further testing indeed that is the case. Once you have used VS then in Guns the VS mode is still active however the VS scan limit lines are not displayed.

[504Goon]

Couldn't find a word of the VS mode from the 29A manual..

[IvanK]

What 29A manual do you have (504)Goon ?

 

I have a Russian word document that illustrates VS mode.

[504Goon]

The Alan R. Wise version, i think it's based on the German 29A manuals, so there might be stuff missing from it..

[RvETito]

The VS do provide automatic lock(both in LO and RL) no matter that you see the funel only. But it gives a delay which sometimes fails any snap shot opportunity. That's why it's good to use the Helmet mode to have an instant lock when the target is still off aspect.

[nscode]

So it's like bore but you have to manually hit the switch?

 

Yes, and if I am not mistaken, on the real thing if you want auto you just hold the lock button. You can even go further and hold the trigger too and it will fire as soon as it locks... probably killing your wingman :music_whistling:

[Eagle Driver]

Aren't we talking about guns though? Guns don't need a lock. Although, if you tried that "Auto-Fire" trick with an R-73 then things could get ugly for Boris12.

[RvETito]

For gun pipper ('synchronous' fire) you need lock. The funnel ('прогноз-дорожка' 'gun predictor') doesn't need a lock, just your aiming.

 

As for how the 'automatic' R-73 launch works- you select the weapon in Helmet mode, press and hold the trigger, look at the bandit (move your head) and as soon as the missile locks him (1sec) it starts - 'Fox 2'!

[UWBuRn]

I guess in FC it uses the logic of the selected mode, the gun mode is a "sub mode"... usually i switch to vertical and then i select the gun so when the target get in the correct position it get locked automatically.

 

Anyway, VS doesn't require you to hit the lock button while is needed for the boresight and for the helmet. In the old 1.02 the lock button pressing was requiered also for the VS.

[IvanK]

For those that are unaware of these documents:

 

Russian MIG29 Employment manual:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/MiG-29Rus.doc

 

SU27K Employment manual

Su-27SK Flight Manual Vol 1

Su-27SK Flight Manual Vol 2

http://www.rlesk.narod.ru/RLE_Su-27SK_kn1.rar

 

SU27K Employment Manual English (Poor translation and the weirdest formating known)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/Su27_1.doc

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/ebooks/Su27_2.doc

 

If someone can translate these or even fix the formating of the SU27 English translations well so much the better.

[504Goon]

Thanks a bunch, i've been looking for translation of the Su-27 manual for AGES! :)

[A.S]

great Post...thx :thumbup:

[Vekkinho]

There's a slight mistake in MiG-29 and Su-27 gun mode :music_whistling:

 

During the dogfight when you select guns, funnel appears and auto locks onto a target within funnel envelope.This area of autolock is same in size as Bore mode and autolock automatically turns your radar on and you'll get LCOS pipper on your HUD.

 

This shouldn't be a case IRL, if your radar is off it should remain like that until you manually turn it on allowing you to shoot your guns onto a target by using a funnel sight only.

 

There's a target specified size feature in LOFC that adjusts the size of the gun funnel but I see no point of it if radar turns on as soon as you place a target between funnel lines!

[RvETito]

In CAC (БВБ) mode IRL the radar is slaved to the EOS (ВЗМД ТОРМОЗ - БЕЗ ВЗМД switch is in the ВЗМД ТОРМОЗ position). It works in stand-by and is automatically enabled in case the EOS loses track (target goes into a cloud). Once the EOS relocks the radar ceases illumination. Thus you don't lose lock no matter the conditions (well almost :)) and keep relatively silent your attack.