SA in the F-15C

[ouseler]

I just downloaded the F-15C module last week and have been toying around with it trying to familiarize myself a little.

 

This is my first air superiority plane that I have attempted in DCS as all of my time so far has been spent in the Hog. I'm finding F-15C a little un-natural by not being able to flip switches in the cockpit, but it is a low-fidelity sim and I knew that going in.

 

My biggest problem in situational awareness. With being a ground pounder for years, my targets are relatively stationary and therefore my SA is fairly easy to maintain. However, I found out real quick that SA in air-to-air is a whole other animal (very fluid). I found myself losing SA very quickly and basically doing donuts to find the enemy.

 

I have found and watched several you tube channels that do an excellent job of explaining the situations and using Tacview (which I have) to breakdown the engagements. But watching it and doing it are two totally different things.

 

I have thought that my HOTAS layout may be a little to blame because I am spending some time trying to get the radar to behave (I have a TM Warthog Stick and Throttle). Maybe not. I have also thought about flying against live pilots (which I have never done). I do not really know how to get started with that even if I wanted to.

 

Anyway, does anyone have any good advise on how I can get my skills up?

[razo+r]

Do it like most people online. Spam the AWACS with bogey dope requests. AWACS will then guide you to the closest bandit(s)

[draconus]

AWACS will point you only to target that they see. Also if the target is within 5nm they will tell you "merged" and it's your problem now.

 

SA is practice x3. If you don't have a squad already just do a lot of SP missions - Instant Action even better - over and over again. If you take it more seriously any lost enemy should make you extend from the area. Radar is great but you see nothing if you're too close.

[Oceandar]

I wish human controlled F-15C had DL, the AI F-15 has it but its just a wish and not going to happen.....like ever

 

For the OP, to make it easy spamming AWACS bogey dope you can bind a key for it on your controler. One press only to ask for bogey dope.

 

Make a habit to look on your RWR. The closer a symbol to the center means the closer the threat is, consider its high threat.

 

Probably a little cheat but you can use zoom key to look around or to take a peek at your distance locked target. I use this when enganging Flanker or Tomcat as their missile smoke trailer quite visible so you can react early and plan for your next moves.

 

Consider fly as a group and join TS or SRS for far greater SA for MP. I recommend you watch on youtube video and learn from them as I did. Try watching video from 104th guys, SF squad guys like SF Kapsu (hes on the Hornet mostly now).

 

Good luck.

Edited April 14, 2020 by Oceandar

[rinkerbuck]

yeah its just really hard. Like the others said you really need to rely on AWACs or on multiplayer servers, an outside realtime GCI map. As a standalone, the SU27 actually has better SA than the the F15 because it gets a datalink as long as theirs a friendly AWACs in the sky. Oh yeah and definitely use the external views to your target, that helps a lot.

[eltorrente]

I thought I had a decent handle on SA when I was learning the plane and doing single player stuff. Since then I've been doing multiplayer exclusively on Growling Sidewinder server, and that was a real eye-opener and exposed my actual lack of SA.

 

 

It just takes practice, of course. The main thing is being able to look at the RWR and through experience and trial and error, to interpret the ranges to various contacts. I can now look at a "16" on the RWR, for instance, and tell if he is getting fairly close, or if he is far enough away to not worry about. I can usually tell if he's trailing me and close to IR range, or if he's ~50miles away or so. Of course, lots of pilots will turn off their radar and try and sneak up on you also.

 

 

 

I feel that the best way to learn is through PvP multiplayer, because it's so unpredictable and everyone has different tactics. You get shot down a lot, but you're learning the whole time - especially if you use TacView.

[TAW_Blaze]

You actually don't need an AWACS. If you fly against DL jets or the other side has AWACS obviously it hurts a lot, but generally you don't need it. You can also do juts fine even against those odds in the Eagle.

 

What matters is to have your own routine of SA generation and flying in a way that allows your SA to be maintained.

 

Just a couple things that are important:

 

0) Avionics handling

 

I put this at 0 because this is the absolute minimum - yet a lot of people fail at this. You need to know your avionics very well and be able to use them like the extension of your fingers.

 

This takes a lot of time to master however. Make sure you have an effective HOTAS setup that allows you to manipulate radar cursor, azimuth / elevation, azimuth width and radar modes. In FF jets it gets a bit more complex but essentially it's still the same.

 

If you struggle with radar basics here's a great tool to help understand how it works: https://tawdcs.org/radar-f15/

 

1) Map control

 

This is more of a macro element, but very important. You need to plan where you go and how you will enter the fight. If you put yourself in an area where you're outnumbered with poor exit windows or none you'll typically end up dying no matter what you do.

 

A classic example of a good exit window would be i.e. being able to do a 180 and go Mach 2 back to base because in an Eagle nobody will catch you. Comparatively if you have bandits on both flanks or even cutting you off from taking a direct RTB, unless you can kill them or sneak past you won't make it back.

 

2) Conscious decisions

 

There's a lot to this but the bottom line is everything you do must be conscious and you need to avoid randomness at all cost. Building and maintaining SA is roughly 30% sensor management and 70% mental chess.

 

Just some very simple things:

- noting your attack heading (in general or specific to one fight) significantly helps you to understand where the bandits are coming from

- noting your defense heading helps you automatically make safe maneuvers in case of doubts

- making deliberate maneuvers towards specific headings helps to keep a good mental picture of what's going on

- avoid random maneuvering at all cost - this exponentially increases the rate your SA degrades at and also keeping track of what you're doing will also speed up your learning curve since you know exactly what you did and when

- noting bandit heading helps to find notch directions quickly and also acts as a crutch to know where to look for the bandit

- recognize bandit airspeed, altitude and general flight pattern - this will help a lot in decision making and predicting fight patterns and outcomes

 

3) Concious defense

 

This is a subset of 2) but I cannot overstate how important it is. If a missile is fired at you and your first thought is to do something "random" it'll always get you killed.

 

The first thing that you must do is to analyze where the missile is coming from. This includes range, launch altitude and airspeed and also your own initial parameters. Once you know this data you can make educated decisions on how you try to defeat it.

 

Obviously if you only start doing all of this when your RWR starts blinking it's all too late. Which is why you do all the other things I'm describing above and below. To have a mental picture and understand if a missile is inbound, what is the most likely source it comes from and knowing your surroundings you can almost instantly make good decisions on how to react because you immediately can have a ballpark guess of when and where the missile was launched.

i.e. if I'm preparing to fight someone and he's currently at 15 miles and I get an active missile warning it means he fired it somewhere between 10-15 seconds ago (considering an AMRAAM). Then based on experience you can translate this into what you need to do to defeat that particular threat.

 

4) Reset between fights

 

One of the most common mistakes I see online is that people commit to a fight and once the fight is over, if they are still alive they continue being agressive.

 

Now I'm not saying this is 100% wrong or you should not do this, but it should be determined based on the scenario.

However most people just do it blindly and they fail to realize (or ignore) that the longer you are committed to a particular fight the worse your SA gets. A BVR fight for 30 seconds will significantly reduce your SA. A BVR fight lasting 2 minutes means your original SA is completely obsolete

 

5) Tunnel vision

 

This is the other typical mistake. Now everyone is flying datalink jets so it's becoming less and less common but unfortunately not because of pilot skill.

 

In general you always want to focus on the highest threat. But if you commit to prepare fighting a guy from 40 miles away, there might be a guy notching you at 15 miles and the moment he sees this he might turn into you and you won't see it coming.

This is why you should stay on your toes and only commit to fight someone when you have good confidence that he's the highest threat to you.

 

i.e. if I fly an Eagle typically I'm scanning the sky even if I know there is a guy 20 miles pushing towards me because 20 miles is still not that threatening (discounting 40k+ ft altitude fights). I'm going to scan 5-15 miles in front especially at low altitudes to find anyone sneaking around. I will intermittently scan back to keep tabs on the original guy, but not commit - although at the same time I still prepare for the upcoming fight by speeding up.

This is not to say you are ignoring this guy, this is absolutely not the case. You are full on preparing to fight him. You should have a plan on how you execute the fight: when you really target him, what altitude and airspeed you arrive to shoot and how you defend. You continously monitor him but at the same time scan for additional threats that might override your priority target and force you to alter your plan. Once the bandit gets to your planned parameters you enter the fight and execute it.

 

However if I spot a guy turning into me from the notch at 8 miles while my original target is at 16 miles I will either immediately retarget or if unable simply ditch the fight and extend. In another example, if my original bandit is 15 miles to my 360 and I spot a guy to my 300 at 12 miles I might crank 060 and execute the fight to the bandit at 15 miles while maintaining maximum separation from the other guy. It is also likely in this case if my original exit heading was 180, now I might alter that to 120 to minimize closure between me and the other bandit.

 

To summarize fighting air to air is all about monitoring your environment and constantly double checking if your plan is still valid. In order to be effective at this you need to be aware of what exactly you are doing and what you're planning to do. This allows you to keep a clear mental picture and predict what will happen or where you need to go.

 

Now obviously this is very difficult. I recommend to start simple. A couple of the more simple things you can start with:

- remind yourself to note bandit heading before entering the fight and try to remember it.. now if this is working, try doing this in combination with some 9g out of plane turns

- experiment against AI to see if fires how much time you have to execute a particular type of defense.. I would start with something basic like a split S extend, and I would also set the AI to fire on Rtr otherwise it gets too easy to dodge them

 

 

Make sure you have Tacview and have a structured approach to what you try, when you try and how you evaluate your success. Doing things randomly will usually result in developing the wrong habits.

[=4c=Nikola]

Nice post blaze.

 

I would add (or expand):

-Make timelines for standard scenarios and stick to them. If you are behind your timeline it's time to retreat and try again.

-Find a pair. While you are monitoring a group you are planning to attack, your teammate can scan around for threats until you meld.