Dudikoff Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) What would you propose for an oveclocked AMD build to go head to head with the 10600/10900? If you're willing to consider that route, there are actually a few higher-clocked XT Ryzens to be released soon to counter Intel's Comet Lake K CPUs. 3900XT will have their boost clocks pushed to 4.8 GHz, while 3700XT and 3600XT will have their boost clocks at 4.7. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Rumored-clockspeeds-leak-for-4-8-GHz-AMD-Ryzen-9-3900XT-4-7-GHz-Ryzen-7-3700XT-and-Ryzen-5-3600XT-Upclocked-Matisse-refresh-takes-on-Comet-Lake-S-i7-10700K-and-i9-10900K.466481.0.html Edited May 26, 2020 by Dudikoff i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxer Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 How exactly does that counter Intel unless they overclock to 5.3 on water or air? [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wali763 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) https://www.computerbase.de/2020-05/spieleleistung-test-intel-core-i9-9900k-amd-ryzen-9-3900x-ram-oc/2/#diagramm-metro-exodus That´s all about AMD vs Intel in Gaming with OC. To have a idea of performance in DCS, everybody can look at the results of anno 1800. This is single core performance and in this case, the 9900ks is 40% ahead. Yeah, thats the solution. Putting in 4133-RAM, that costs (in a 32GB-kit) more than the CPU itself! Anno1800 is only single-core? Ive see/read lots of game-comparisons between AMD and Intel but still do not know, which game is resembling the needs of DCS the most. How come, you think Anno 1800 is that game? Regarding 10900K. For sure a good CPU, but you need to factor in the AIO too, which is a further 150 (Dollar or Euros). From the tests Ive seen, the 10600K with an OC should be much cheaper and at least on par with the 10900K. But well, AMD is within a month offering higher clocked XT-variants and later this year with Zen3 most probably will deal the final blow to Intels proud "fastest gaming CPU" Im staying with my I5-9600K with an OC for now, since I do not see a huge improvement with the new Generation for DCS. Edited May 26, 2020 by Wali763 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wali763 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Hold on mate, You want to replace Intel Core i7-4790K for 10900K for DCS??? This 10900K is not better than your current CPU if you are looking for processing power, it runs natively in 3.7 GHz, don't expect it to outperform your current CPU. I am running my I7-6700K at 4.18 GHz across all cores constantly, I have not seen 10900K performing that well across all cores yet, and for the RRP they're asking, I would hold fire till December. Not sure, you are right. Looking at https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html which is just one single-thread-performance-ranking the 4790K comes in at rank 72 with 2486pts, my 9600K at rank 18 with 2788pts and the 10900K at rank 1 with 3200pts All stock, of course. But its clearly visible, that there has been some progress over the years. If you want to compare: my 9600k with 5,1Ghz did a 520 CinebenchR20 singlethread-Score just yesterday; maybe I could try again at 5,2Ghz too. Only got a multhread-score yesterday an then the PC crahed. Edited May 26, 2020 by Wali763 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yeti42 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Hold on mate, You want to replace Intel Core i7-4790K for 10900K for DCS??? This 10900K is not better than your current CPU if you are looking for processing power, it runs natively in 3.7 GHz, don't expect it to outperform your current CPU. Ummm, that's quite a statement and factually inaccurate. The 10900k beats the 4790K on all measurable performance figures both stock and overclocked including single core performance. It absolutely demolishes it on multicore performance. https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-vs-Intel-Core-i9-10900K/2384vs4071 Although DCS only uses one core (currently) there are a lots of other processes running that soak up threads and use other cores, multicore performance is still useful in DCS even though the main game engine doesn't use them. EDIT: And if you use other sims which take advantage of multiple cores (Such as the upcoming MSFS 2020) you'll see an even more considerable performance increase. AMD is still not there when it comes to raw core clock speeds and that really does matter with gaming... Edited May 26, 2020 by Yeti42 Windows 10 64 bit | Intel i5-9600k OC 5 Ghz | RTX 2080 |VENGEANCE® LPX 32GB DDR 4 OC 3200 Hotas Warthog | Logitech G Flight Rudder Pedals | Track IR 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudikoff Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) How exactly does that counter Intel unless they overclock to 5.3 on water or air? I'm not sure what you're arguing there and with whom. All I said is that if the OP is considering the Ryzen route as well, AMD will release slightly up-clocked variants soon. They will obviously offer performance somewhat closer to Intel's, whether enough, it depends on the individual buyer's preference and needs. Edited May 26, 2020 by Dudikoff i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxer Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 I'm not sure what you're arguing there and with whom. All I said is that if the OP is considering the Ryzen route as well, AMD will release slightly up-clocked variants soon. They will obviously offer performance somewhat closer to Intel's, whether enough, it depends on the individual buyer's preference and needs. Okay, so you were just repeating what I said earlier in this thread here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4347746&postcount=27 I was more commenting that AMD increasing threads to 4.8 would not counter Intel running at 5.3! Top AMD chips are already boosting to 4.8. The 15% increase I mentioned in my thread would imply that AMD would get boost clocks above 5 GHz... who knows how high... often these rumours are exaggerated. So more querying your 4.8 bridging the gap to 5.3... does not make sense. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomer Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Okay, so you were just repeating what I said earlier in this thread here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4347746&postcount=27 I was more commenting that AMD increasing threads to 4.8 would not counter Intel running at 5.3! Top AMD chips are already boosting to 4.8. The 15% increase I mentioned in my thread would imply that AMD would get boost clocks above 5 GHz... who knows how high... often these rumours are exaggerated. So more querying your 4.8 bridging the gap to 5.3... does not make sense. How long do you think the Intel chip can sustain 5.3ghz, even on water. Before it begins to fry and throttle back. 5.3ghz sustained is not going to happen, it's just marketing desperation to try and stem the flood to AMD. Frankly you'd want to be mad or just want to waste money buying the i10 chip. I just wouldn't upgrade on any platform atm as we are on the verge of a new generation transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudikoff Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Okay, so you were just repeating what I said earlier in this thread here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4347746&postcount=27 I was more commenting that AMD increasing threads to 4.8 would not counter Intel running at 5.3! Top AMD chips are already boosting to 4.8. The 15% increase I mentioned in my thread would imply that AMD would get boost clocks above 5 GHz... who knows how high... often these rumours are exaggerated. So more querying your 4.8 bridging the gap to 5.3... does not make sense. I really don't know what you've said somewhere or not, but again I'm simply sharing yesterday's news article about upcoming Ryzen variants (which are a reaction to a better than expected performing Comet Lake CPUs presumably) to help the OP with his purchasing decision. These new CPUs will supposedly have their boost values increased by 200 and 300 MHz respectfully so these particular CPUs which are getting a refresh do not have boost clocks up to 4.8 yet obviously. As this seems to bother you, I suggest you take it up with AMD as it's their decision. Edited May 26, 2020 by Dudikoff i386DX40@42 MHz w/i387 CP, 4 MB RAM (8*512 kB), Trident 8900C 1 MB w/16-bit RAMDAC ISA, Quantum 340 MB UDMA33, SB 16, DOS 6.22 w/QEMM + Win3.11CE, Quickshot 1btn 2axis, Numpad as hat. 2 FPH on a good day, 1 FPH avg. DISCLAIMER: My posts are still absolutely useless. Just finding excuses not to learn the F-14 (HB's Swansong?). Annoyed by my posts? Please consider donating. Once the target sum is reached, I'll be off to somewhere nice I promise not to post from. I'd buy that for a dollar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxer Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 How long do you think the Intel chip can sustain 5.3ghz, even on water. Before it begins to fry and throttle back. 5.3ghz sustained is not going to happen, it's just marketing desperation to try and stem the flood to AMD. Frankly you'd want to be mad or just want to waste money buying the i10 chip. I just wouldn't upgrade on any platform atm as we are on the verge of a new generation transition. People are sustaining 5.2 on 9th gen. With substrate thickness reduced 5.3 may be possible. Not saying for sure as I don't know. And I am not upgrading to 10th gen. I am getting 4.8 on Skylake-X, so $500-ish for 200-400 MHz really not worth it. I am waiting for 12th gen or waiting to see what AMD comes up with. Please don't put words into my mouth. I can speak for myself without you distorting what I say. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wali763 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Okay, so you were just repeating what I said earlier in this thread here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4347746&postcount=27 I was more commenting that AMD increasing threads to 4.8 would not counter Intel running at 5.3! Top AMD chips are already boosting to 4.8. The 15% increase I mentioned in my thread would imply that AMD would get boost clocks above 5 GHz... who knows how high... often these rumours are exaggerated. So more querying your 4.8 bridging the gap to 5.3... does not make sense. 5,3 is just a number on the wall. This will only be reached if only two cores are required and the temps are under 70deg to my knowledge. Even DCS is mostly single-threaded, I usually do witness four cores being used. So the I9 will not reach those 5,3Ghz in DCS, most probably 4,9 Ghz (allcore-boost). Still AMDs Zen2 (or upcoming Zen2- XTs) should have bad scaling over 4,4Ghz, so eveything over 4,4Ghz should give you less than expected returns Edited May 26, 2020 by Wali763 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxer Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 5,3 is just a number on the wall. This will only be reached if only a single core is required and the temps are under 70deg to my knowledge. Even DCS is mostly single-threaded, I usually do witness four cores being used. So the I9 will not reach those 5,3Ghz in DCS, most probably 4,8 Ghz (allcore-boost). Still AMDs Zen2 (or upcoming Zen2- XTs) should have bad scaling over 4,4Ghz, so eveything over 4,4Ghz should give you less than expected returns Intel's own software takes the i9 to 5.3GHz briefly on 2 golden cores, <<out of the box>>. With a decent i9 / silicon lottery, a capable motherboard and sufficient cooling I would expect an enthusiast with fairly basic skills to get 5.3GHz sustained on four cores. Heck... there are people on this forum with 9th generation 9900K CPUs getting 5.2GHz sustained on 8 cores. And 10th generation improves the die to heatsink thermal interface considerably compared to 9th generation. Explaining this to you is getting boring. I'll leave you to it. Do what you want... I really don't care; be happy. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomer Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) Please don't put words into my mouth. I can speak for myself without you distorting what I say. Get off the high horse and don't be so defensive. No one is putting words in anyone's mouth. This is an adult conversation and not a children's playground. Edited May 27, 2020 by Zoomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dburne Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 I easily run my i9 9900k at 5.2 GHz on all 8 cores with no AVX offset all day long with my 360 MM AIO. 5.3 is certainly doable especially if one has a custom water loop. Don B EVGA Z390 Dark MB | i9 9900k CPU @ 5.1 GHz | Gigabyte 4090 OC | 64 GB Corsair Vengeance 3200 MHz CL16 | Corsair H150i Pro Cooler |Virpil CM3 Stick w/ Alpha Prime Grip 200mm ext| Virpil CM3 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Base w/ Alpha-L Grip| Point Control V2|Varjo Aero| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reece146 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Change of tack a bit... Many Z490 vendors... looking at best long term support - e.g. BIOS updates many years in the future, not just two or three. I still get BIOS updates for my 10 year old HP workstations (not gaming rigs). But ten years is probably not realistic for a gaming platform. I heard some of the new Z490 boards are having BIOS type issues (immature platform in spite of Z390 legacy?). I've been burned by Asus/Asustor many times over the years - will not buy. Leaning Gigabyte with Asrock (no longer part of Asus?) secondly. Recommendations for mid range, two PCIx16 (physical, x16/x4 or x8/x8 is fine) slots, lots of USB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motomouse Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) 5.2 or 5.3, does it really matter :-) If it really does, we will appreciate some disruptive developments like the new graphices engine for that other sim or the next nvidia gen living up to the hype ... Edited May 26, 2020 by Motomouse VIC-20@1.108 MHz, onboard GPU, 5KB RAM, μυωπία goggles, Competition Pro HOTAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svsmokey Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 (edited) 5.2 or 5.3, does it really matter :-) If it really does, we will appreciate some disruptive developments like the new graphices engine for that other sim or the next nvidia gen living up to the hype ... Exactly . I wonder if lot of this is more about bragging rights than realistic performance increases . Edited May 26, 2020 by Svsmokey 9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james111333 Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 Did anyone notice the thread title haha :lol: I love a good discussion but there seems to be a lot opinions about which CPU to buy, I may have to start a new thread with the same title to discuss 10900k performance with owners of the chip :megalol: The 10900k is objectively a better performance and as we use DCS, those 2 stronger cores out of the box will be a great help to our FPS. Opinions of value etc are all well and good and genuinely interesting but for the OP side of things, I don't care about value, I can afford it, I'm not rich but I could imagine going to buy a Ferrari and someone stopping me on the way to tell me the GTR is only .2 seconds slower 0-60 and £200,000 cheaper. I have £100s in custom water loop hardware so it could be 400w for all I care, I just want shadows on in DCS :joystick: :P People should listen to Milou, he knows the deal and has saved me loads of time in replying lol. The best chip is the 10900k, a 10% boost in the 3900x single threaded is not likely to make the difference although it is worth waiting 2 weeks at this point but in all likelihood, the 10900k will still be the most powerful for my needs. (I'm tired of hearing reviewers tell me AMD is great for productivity, does anyone here actually care professionally and game on the same machine?) MSI suggest that 30% of the 10900k chips will clock significantly higher than stock. It's not unreasonable to buy 2 and re sell the weaker overclocker as tested but barely used, it would still work 100% to advertised specs. Either way, thank you so far for the conversation. I'm still very much looking forward to first hand accounts of this chip in DCS and contrary to some people's opinions, whatever I get at this stage over my 7 year old CPU is going to be a great all round upgrade - Fast DDR4, 1Tb nvme 5+GHz and shadows on :pilotfly: Genuine RAF Merlin Collective DIY project (Build Thread) 4790k @4.7GHz | RTX 2080ti Aorus Xtreme | 500GB SSD | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswinds 100" 4K Screen with heavily modified (Long distance) head tracking | Acoustic Energy / SVS 7.3.4 | Marantz AVR | Custom Tactile Transducer sofa using SimShaker | HP Reverb Pro Ver.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svsmokey Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 Yeah , i understand what you are saying , but the fact is it is yet a month or more too early to ask the question . Even with the hardware in hand , it's gonna take a couple weeks or more to tune and evaluate . 9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james111333 Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 Yeah , i understand what you are saying , but the fact is it is yet a month or more too early to ask the question . Even with the hardware in hand , it's gonna take a couple weeks or more to tune and evaluate . I was picturing more of a scenario like when I upgraded my RAM for DCS, I have a set manual benchmark in the f 14 free flight, so am familiar with the first 30 seconds characteristics. I swapped the RAM, loaded it back up and grinned for the rest of the day at how much difference the extra 400MHz made (with looser timings I might add as I had 2000MHz DDR 3 CL8 and swapped with 2400MHz CL11 - Yes my first kit was configured to run at those speeds in case anyone tells me it was at 1600MHz or something :thumbup:) I know my frame times using FPS VR, It would take 10 minutes of flying to notice the impact the CPU has so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to have fist impressions after a day or 2. Genuine RAF Merlin Collective DIY project (Build Thread) 4790k @4.7GHz | RTX 2080ti Aorus Xtreme | 500GB SSD | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswinds 100" 4K Screen with heavily modified (Long distance) head tracking | Acoustic Energy / SVS 7.3.4 | Marantz AVR | Custom Tactile Transducer sofa using SimShaker | HP Reverb Pro Ver.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james111333 Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 SVS SVSmonkey? Is that as in the speakers? Genuine RAF Merlin Collective DIY project (Build Thread) 4790k @4.7GHz | RTX 2080ti Aorus Xtreme | 500GB SSD | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswinds 100" 4K Screen with heavily modified (Long distance) head tracking | Acoustic Energy / SVS 7.3.4 | Marantz AVR | Custom Tactile Transducer sofa using SimShaker | HP Reverb Pro Ver.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svsmokey Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 I get that a lot :) There is no "n" . 9700k @ stock , Aorus Pro Z390 wifi , 32gb 3200 mhz CL16 , 1tb EVO 970 , MSI RX 6800XT Gaming X TRIO , Seasonic Prime 850w Gold , Coolermaster H500m , Noctua NH-D15S , CH Pro throttle and T50CM2/WarBrD base on Foxxmounts , CH pedals , Reverb G2v2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james111333 Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 I get that a lot :) There is no "n" . Haha, ah yeah, I read SVSmonkey lol monkey on the brain as my DCS servers are always called "Monkey" There's a car battery company in the UK called Tayna Batteries, at first I wondered who would name a company with girls name. Genuine RAF Merlin Collective DIY project (Build Thread) 4790k @4.7GHz | RTX 2080ti Aorus Xtreme | 500GB SSD | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswinds 100" 4K Screen with heavily modified (Long distance) head tracking | Acoustic Energy / SVS 7.3.4 | Marantz AVR | Custom Tactile Transducer sofa using SimShaker | HP Reverb Pro Ver.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james111333 Posted May 28, 2020 Author Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) For anyone that invested too much in the negative hype and 'drama queen' attitude of some of the tech media outlets this video illustrates that this is not a nuclear power plant :) Skip to 17:00 for a great summarising sentence. :thumbup: Edited May 28, 2020 by james111333 Genuine RAF Merlin Collective DIY project (Build Thread) 4790k @4.7GHz | RTX 2080ti Aorus Xtreme | 500GB SSD | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswinds 100" 4K Screen with heavily modified (Long distance) head tracking | Acoustic Energy / SVS 7.3.4 | Marantz AVR | Custom Tactile Transducer sofa using SimShaker | HP Reverb Pro Ver.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldViPer Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 Can't play that vid, gives error Asus Prime X570-P * Ryzen 5800X3D + Scythe Fuma cooler * RTX 4080 Super * Corsair 64GB DDR4 3600MHz * Samsung 980 pro 1Tb + 2Tb nvme * Samsung 850 EVO 512Gb SSD * Corsair RM850x V2/2018 * HP Reverb G2 * CH Fighterstick/Pedals/Throttle * Win11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts