Harder to visually spot bandits?

[BattleAxes Skinner]

Is it just me or is it harder to visually spot bandits in the F16?

 

I have found this to be the case only with the F16 on multiple occasions when switching between F16, F18 & J11 during squadron trainings.

 

I somehow visually spot bandits (the black dots) out of the Flanker and F18 cockpits much better and easier. Anyone else also noticed this?

[Mars Exulte]

If I remember right, the F-16 has a tinted canopy, but most likely so do the others. I remember noting tinting but not what planes @@ Not really something I paid attention to. Anyway, aside from possible different tinting making it less contrasty, external 3d models of other aircraft shouldn't have anything to do with what you're flying. Not saying it's not theoretically possible, but it is extremely unlikely

[TAW_Blaze]

I also have the same experience. Removing the tint helps a lot, but I still feel like it's more difficult to spot other aircraft sitting in a Viper.

[BattleAxes Skinner]

I also have the same experience. Removing the tint helps a lot' date=' but I still feel like it's more difficult to spot other aircraft sitting in a Viper.[/quote'] Ditto Blaze. The 'tint' is a disaster. Getting rid of it helped a little initially, but even after removing it, the F16 doesn't exactly provide the same visibility as the other jets do.

[Deano87]

the F16 doesn't exactly provide the same visibility as the other jets do.

 

Funny you should say that about the aircraft with the most unobstructed view in the sim lol. Anyway I’m not seeing this issue. Spotting feels exactly the same between the Viper, Hornet and Tomcat which I regularly fly.

[BattleAxes Skinner]

Funny you should say that about the aircraft with the most unobstructed view in the sim lol. Anyway I’m not seeing this issue. Spotting feels exactly the same between the Viper, Hornet and Tomcat which I regularly fly.

It's not about the un-obstructed view Deano. It's about not easily spotting the bandits (the black dots) when trying to look for them visually. Blaze and I spot these black dots better out of other DCS a/c with obstructed views. Perhaps a graphics rendering glitch with the F16 module - not outlandish considering the current state-of-affairs; in fact quite plausible?

[Dee-Jay]

To me, each modules seems to have (by default) another FOV setting. Maybe it is tie to this (?)

[Deano87]

It's not about the un-obstructed view Deano. It's about not easily spotting the bandits (the black dots) when trying to look for them visually. Blaze and I spot these black dots better out of other DCS a/c with obstructed views. Perhaps a graphics rendering glitch with the F16 module - not outlandish considering the current state-of-affairs; in fact quite plausible?

 

Yeah I got what you were saying. And I still don’t see it. I’m flying with tint and canopy reflection on in VR and spotting is better for me in the Viper than in the other two aircraft I regularly fly in because of the unobstructed view.

 

Are you flying in 2D or VR? If 2D What FOV have you got set?

[Contact409]

long-standing scaling problem.

[Harlikwin]

So, how do I get rid of tint and does it pass IC? IN VR...

[Diesel_Thunder]

It's an option in the settings menu for the Viper for the canopy tint.

[BattleAxes Skinner]

Yeah I got what you were saying. And I still don’t see it. I’m flying with tint and canopy reflection on in VR and spotting is better for me in the Viper than in the other two aircraft I regularly fly in because of the unobstructed view.

 

Are you flying in 2D or VR? If 2D What FOV have you got set?

 

I am flying 2D Deano. I am sorry but this is the first that I have heard about an 'FOV setting'. What does it do? And how do I set it?

[TAW_Blaze]

FOV in 2D would be your "usual" zoom setting, since it always changes with zoom. I checked at some point because I also thought this would be the culprit but I don't remember the results anymore.. I think on the Viper I have to fly on a totally different FOV than I would in an Eagle.

[BattleAxes Skinner]

FOV in 2D would be your "usual" zoom setting' date=' since it always changes with zoom. I checked at some point because I also thought this would be the culprit but I don't remember the results anymore.. I think on the Viper I have to fly on a totally different FOV than I would in an Eagle.[/quote'] In that case why would one 'set' it? Because, like you said, the 'zoom' is variable and keeps changing with my Warthog's slider axis (much like the 'thrust' z axis).

[TAW_Blaze]

In that case why would one 'set' it? Because, like you said, the 'zoom' is variable and keeps changing with my Warthog's slider axis (much like the 'thrust' z axis).

 

Because you will always fly with a certain zoom that suits your preferences. You simply have to be able to read certain instruments at any given time without having to zoom no matter how good HOTAS you have.

 

The Eagle had the perfect cockpit layout. You could zoom in till the canopy rails were around the edge of your screen, giving you vision on all important instruments and also a relatively high zoom with clear forward vision to spot anything in front of you.

 

In the Viper it sucks a lot more because the MFDs are very low (and a lot harder to read). I've been contemplating on getting MFD exports because that'd solve the problem most likely, but I've been lazy about it.

[TAW_Blaze]

Just double checked.. I used to fly with around 85-90 degrees of FOV in the Eagle, and in the Viper I have around 65 degrees to be comfortable. Which is very weird, because the lower the FOV the better the spotting should be..

[Tiger-II]

I didn't really notice a difference, unless something has changed in one of the last two updates.

[Recon21288]

As someone who flies with Track IR, i've always found it tricky to visually spot targets. I remember before 2.5 released there used to be a setting you could toggle that made it easier (I can't remember what it was called) but since 2.5 released it has been removed.

 

These days in order to even have a miniscule chance of spotting targets i'm constantly zooming in and out as I look out, and around the cockpit. Obviously it's a little easier on servers that have the blue/red dot enabled. In the old days I considered that "cheating" but now, i'm ok with it as long as its just the dots and no the full text version.

[Harlikwin]

As someone who flies with Track IR, i've always found it tricky to visually spot targets. I remember before 2.5 released there used to be a setting you could toggle that made it easier (I can't remember what it was called) but since 2.5 released it has been removed.

 

These days in order to even have a miniscule chance of spotting targets i'm constantly zooming in and out as I look out, and around the cockpit. Obviously it's a little easier on servers that have the blue/red dot enabled. In the old days I considered that "cheating" but now, i'm ok with it as long as its just the dots and no the full text version.

 

I like the dots, but no serious MP PVP server allows them. And I think they still need more work, like allowing more fade in/out at distances. And not obscuring the AC in close so you can VID.

[BattleAxes Skinner]

As someone who flies with Track IR, i've always found it tricky to visually spot targets. I remember before 2.5 released there used to be a setting you could toggle that made it easier (I can't remember what it was called) but since 2.5 released it has been removed.

 

These days in order to even have a miniscule chance of spotting targets i'm constantly zooming in and out as I look out, and around the cockpit. Obviously it's a little easier on servers that have the blue/red dot enabled. In the old days I considered that "cheating" but now, i'm ok with it as long as its just the dots and no the full text version.

 

The 'Red/Blue dots' you're referring to are called 'Labels' - they're usually accompanied with descriptor text of the a/c or object type. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about spotting a/c visually at a distance - they appear like small black dots (Never to be confused with Labels). And yes, having 'Labels' on is unfair!

[Fri13]

The spotting in DCS is currently unrealistic.

 

I can spot (in VR, Rift S and as good as with 4K display or TV) small F-5 or MiG-21 size targets from about 15-20 km distance when against sky, without any zooming (don't have zoom bind on anything). A T-55 I can spot on the ground from 13-15 km range when on the flat desert (next to ground clutter like Cactus etc) or flat grass and sun is behind me (now shadow visible) so not next to a tree or against trees or so on. A hovering Mi-24 or AH-64 I can spot from 12-15 km distance when just knowing the general direction (like in 10 degree area) in slight haze even.

 

Realistically I should be able to spot a F-5 even when knowing where to look, at around 1-2 km when head on and similar for MiG-21 (their huge advantage to be a extremely thin from the front). And when from other directions like sideways then around 7-8 km, that against the sky in optimal case.

 

C-130 or 747 should be able to be spotted from 20-30 km against the sky in good conditions (like a white color against blue sky) when knowing where to look directly but C-130 with a grey color should blend nicely even then and shorten range, especially a lot when against the ground.

 

BVR theory entails a technologically sophisticated fighter, equipped with a

powerful radar and fire control system, launching accurate radar-guided missiles at

distant enemy aircraft.ii In the Cold War context, these enemy aircraft might be Soviet

bombers attacking the US homeland or droves of Soviet fighters seeking to establish air

supremacy over Western Europe. In either case, the intended targets are well out of

sight—beyond visual range.

 

Visual range depends on various factors: visual acuity,

visual enhancements (e.g. binoculars or long-range imaging devices), visual inhibitors

(e.g. clouds or dirt on the canopy), light conditions, target aspect, and target size.

 

Colonel James Burton selected five nautical miles—in daylight—as his BVR limit for

evaluating air-to-air missiles.iii Alternatively, the Gulf War Air Power Survey (GWAPS)

BVR criteria depended upon whether the target was visually identified.iv Table 1 is

adapted from Stevensonv and shows the average distance (in nautical miles) at which

different aircraft are visible during daytime, based on airframe size. Factors such as

engine smoke for the F-4 are not included. The dotted line shows Burton’s five nautical

mile criteria.

 

 

We should really get a semi-transparent dots, where we get to see fighters only at around that 7-13 km range when in optimal case (against blue sky, sideways etc). And when directly away/toward then just "disappear" until much much closer.

[Tiger-II]

In the real-world you also have to battle with "empty field myopia", where the clear blue sky causes your eyes to focus much closer to you than you think, meaning that you see absolutely NOTHING.

 

 

The worst days for flight safety are ABSOLUTELY CLEAR BLUE DAYS! More mid-air collisions happen on nice days than any other time, and it isn't because everyone is out enjoying the weather!